Sara Olsher on Communication and Kids

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I've done a lot of public speaking and teaching, um, parents with cancer metastatic disease, or, you know, early stage and a lot of them come up to me afterward and say, I didn't think I could use the word cancer.

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Mm.

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kids,

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Mm.

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hmm.

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Mm hmm.

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understand why I need to use that word.

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I now know how I can explain it in a way that isn't terrifying.

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Um, I, I think a lot of parents think that they are protecting their kids by not explaining it, but it actually turns out.

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You know, the exact opposite

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I'm Dr Tina Kaczor

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and I'm Dr Leah Sherman

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And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

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But we're not your doctors

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This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

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do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

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The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

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Welcome to the cancer pod

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Hey, Tina,

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Hey, Leah.

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how much fun was this conversation?

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I had a great time.

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I think

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This was such a good interview.

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I said, I know we say this all the time, but it really was.

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We spoke with Sarah Ulsher who is the creator of and Bright.

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She underwent some major life changes and um She took her experience as a cancer survivor and experience through divorce and she created this business.

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She wrote a book, um, ended up writing 12 books.

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I guess that's what she's up to now.

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she has these, schedules that she's created through Mighty and Bright where you can use them with kids to help them kind of manage their lives.

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And, I don't know.

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I don't want to give too much away, but that's kind of the summary.

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Do you think that's a good summary?

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that's a good summary.

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I think that, yeah, faced with challenges, she saw how universal some of her challenges are, and she set about finding solutions, not just for her own kid, but more applicable broadly for other folks out there who

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Yeah,

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are single moms or have cancer diagnoses and have to go through that.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah.

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eloquent now.

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And it was a really great conversation.

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I don't know if we mentioned at the end, but she, we did talk about her TikTok.

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Um, she has an Instagram, it's mightyandbrightco, C O.

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So if we failed to mention that, we'll also have links in the show notes, um, to how you can find her, including her websites and how to order the books and everything.

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But,

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Yeah.

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And as always, I mean, the whole idea here is for our listeners to gain some knowledge that is either helpful for them personally or for their loved ones or someone they know.

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I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of really useful tidbits in here.

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I think that can be helpful for people.

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yeah, and this is one of the first ones.

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I'm gonna leave.

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Um, to people about, you know, like family being kind of part of this whole cancer world.

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Um, but this is the one where we really talk about, you know, kids and the impact it has on kids.

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And so

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Yeah.

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of a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a new world for us, but a

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Yeah,

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it's a whole new world.

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yeah, yeah, it's definitely a big, a steep learning curve for me, um, because I don't have kids.

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So,

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either.

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yeah, so the challenges I understand them in the abstract and I can only appreciate the fact that I only know them in the abstract that that's a lot different to live through it.

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I would imagine.

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Yeah, and we've had patients, obviously, who have children and, you know, trying to work with them through some of these issues that come up.

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I wish I knew about the solution before, because this would be something that I would definitely recommend

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Yes.

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patients,

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Totally agree.

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Having some tools to help bring kids along and help them through it and lessen their anxiety that they might have.

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right?

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yeah, yeah, it was a great conversation.

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okay, so before we get to the episode, Remember, you can follow us on Instagram, we're on TikTok, YouTube, if watching this video on YouTube, hello there, um, uh, and we are listener supported, I sound like NPR.

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Without further ado, here's our guest, hello, Sarah.

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Thank you for joining us.

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Thank

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you so much for having me.

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I'm really excited to chat with you.

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Yeah.

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We did some looking online and you're quite prolific with your books.

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And so I can see that this has been going on about five years from what I can tell, maybe longer in your storyline, but as far as what's been published, Amazon and such, um, Can you start us out with a little of what inspired you and your background on creating these books specifically for children and helping children understand what's going on with their parents during treatment for cancer?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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so my background is in psychology and I was like running a business on the side that was very much about kids, mental health and like, how to help them through transitions and hard things.

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Um, so I had like, a background knowledge of kind of how kids cope when something hard happens.

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and I really needed that because when I was 34 and my daughter was 6.

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I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I, I was divorced at the time and I had a family history of breast cancer.

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And so I had just been advocating for myself for a long time, like, hey, I think I need early screenings and then I started to have this weird sensation and my left breast that felt like breast milk being let down.

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I had kind of gotten.

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Poo pooed by my doctor, um, previously about the early screening.

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She was like, yeah, you know, unless you have a 1st degree relative, we're no longer doing, you know, early detection and I had literally every single woman in my family on both sides had breast cancer, except for my mother at that point.

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Um, my dad's side of the family is Ashkenazi Jewish.

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I had.

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No genetic screenings, nothing.

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And I just thought this is ridiculous.

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So when I started having that weird sensation, I just thought I should a go get this checked out.

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And B, I'm no longer taking no for an answer at this point, because my mom had just been diagnosed with breast cancer, um, postmenopausal breast cancer.

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She just had a lumpectomy.

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It was really like.

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Not that big of a deal in the breast cancer world.

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Um, and so I went into the doctor.

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She didn't feel anything, but she got me into the early screening program and so I went in for my baseline MRI.

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They said, we see something kind of funny, but we often see things that are kind of funny.

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Mm hmm.

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so I went in for a ultrasound and a diagnostic mammogram at 4 PM on a Friday afternoon.

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And And the radiologist looked very serious looking at my ultrasound I said, what is going on?

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Like, am I going to need a biopsy?

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And he looks at me and says, do you want me to be frank?

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I'm thinking, yeah, like, I don't want to wait off all weekend.

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Right.

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And he said, what we are seeing can be nothing other than cancer and you are going to need your entire left breast removed I was very much in shock.

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I was like, no, no, I, I don't think you understand.

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Like, I'm 34.

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Right.

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a single mom.

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This is not part of my plan.

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Mm hmm.

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so I don't, know, I don't know what you're talking about and I literally had to have this man talk to my parents on the phone because my dad was a doctor and explain to them what was going on.

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because I couldn't process it

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Mm hmm.

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that I had DCIS.

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And it turned out, uh, so I was going to go in for a preventative double mastectomy.

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I was like, don't leave one of them.

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Just take it all.

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Um, and when I woke up from that surgery, it turned out that it had actually spread to my lymph nodes already.

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I never had a tumor.

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If I had not gone in and advocated for myself, I probably would not be sitting here.

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That was 7 years ago.

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So, wait, wait, wait.

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You never had a tumor.

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You mean they didn't, uh, they didn't identify a tumor itself?

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calcifications all the way up from my nipple, all the way to my lymph nodes.

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So there was nothing palpable.

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You couldn't feel it.

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not a

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Oh wow.

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at any point, I

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Okay.

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a single thing, even right before my surgery, there was no lump.

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So, uh, obviously, super terrifying, and, um, my number one fear, even when I thought it was stage zero, was what, Am I going to do about my daughter?

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Because

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hmm.

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our background was that she had really severe anxiety and like she was diagnosed with separation anxiety.

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Like I was her person

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Mm hmm.

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Mm

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only thing I could think about was like her tear stained face at my funeral.

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Like

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hmm.

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dark,

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And how old was she at this time that she was six when you were diagnosed.

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Okay.

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And just to clarify, is this lobular or ductal?

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it was, uh, ductal.

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It was ductile.

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Okay.

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Mm hmm.

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Because lobular often doesn't, isn't palpable.

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That's why I was asking.

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Like that's not uncommon,

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and my mom had lobular.

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That was that first diagnosis she had, and then the year after I had cancer, she was diagnosed in her other breast with ductal.

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Okay.

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we've had a whole lot of cancer in my family.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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In a short period of time.

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a cancer sandwich.

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We have pictures of my mom and I with no hair together.

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Well, yeah, that's a hell of a way to bond.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah, my dad was like, this is not a good group activity.

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Can you

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Yeah, right.

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Exactly.

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All right, so, so your daughter was six.

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and so what I did was because I had this background in psychology and specifically with, you know, helping kids cope with transitions like divorce.

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I, knew that I needed to explain things to her.

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I couldn't just, you know, pretend like everything was okay and have her be fine because I knew she was going to notice like the change in the air.

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She was going to know something wasn't right.

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And so my go to with any like big thing was like, I'm going to go get a book to help me explain this to her.

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So.

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I think I bought probably six books and got another like four at the library

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Mm hmm.

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Them home and was immediately like, well, this is a no.

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I mean, one of the books, like on an Amazon literally had a surgeon holding a bloody knife and I was

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Oh my god.

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who let this go?

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That's right.

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That's for a children's book.

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Yes.

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Whoa.

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but the thing that I realized, like.

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After looking through all those books was I actually wanted to explain to her what cancer was.

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And

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Mm hmm.

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this was 7 years ago, there was nothing out there that explained the science of cancer in a way that.

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I mean, even probably an adult could understand on a basic level.

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It

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Mm hmm.

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children's books about it.

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so I kind of had to come up with my own method of explaining it to her and I so that.

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Explanation, which we can get into if you would like, but that kind of served as a basis for what I did during my treatment, because I immediately took a leave of absence from work, but the way I kept my brain occupied was writing my first book and illustrating it.

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Yeah Yeah, and the name of that book because jotted that one down What Happens When Someone I Love Has Cancer

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Mm hmm.

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Explain the science Of cancer and how a loved one's diagnosis and treatment affects a kid's day to day life.

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Mm

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was its subtitle, right?

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um, and that's still available.

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used in children's hospitals all over the country.

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It's really yeah.

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Thank you.

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It really is what I.

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This, I just have such a passion for helping parents have really difficult conversations with their kids, because if there's no resources out there, what I've learned is parents will just not have a conversation, because they

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Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I mean, that is the biggest compliment to any author is readership, right?

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That's what you want.

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You want it to get it out there, especially self help books or books that will help parents bridge their conversations with their kids.

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I did look at some interviews you did online and communication was, was really the crux of what you want to get out there is, is helping bridge the communication gap out there between the adults and the kids.

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For sure, for sure.

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Yeah, I would say, I've done a lot of public speaking and teaching, um, parents with cancer metastatic disease, or, you know, early stage and a lot of them come up to me afterward and say, I didn't think I could use the word cancer.

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Mm.

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kids,

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Mm.

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hmm.

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Mm hmm.

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understand why I need to use that word.

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I now know how I can explain it in a way that isn't terrifying.

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Um, I, I think a lot of parents think that they are protecting their kids by not explaining it, but it actually turns out.

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You know, the exact opposite and I had to explain to my daughter to, you know, I'm really young and so cancer is a really big word.

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That means a lot of different things and it can mean, a really big, illness where people are sick for a really long time.

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Some, some people die and that isn't the type of cancer that I have, but the people.

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Who you're going to talk to or I'm going to talk to are going to have a strong reaction because they don't know what type of cancer I have.

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Mm.

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this conversation with you so that you don't get scared when you see how other people react,

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Mm hmm.

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Mm

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mostly this happens to older people.

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And so they're going to be surprised.

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hmm.

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You know, and even just that conversation protected her from her second grade teacher who, who they were writing these little cards for a kid with terminal leukemia

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Mm.

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teacher pulled her aside and said, are you okay?

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Because this kid has the same thing your mom has

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Oh.

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and my 2nd

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Oh wow.

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said, that kid doesn't have the same thing.

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My mom has.

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is what my mom has.

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That kid does not have what my mom has.

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Oh good for her.

00:15:31.647 --> 00:15:36.187
I just thought to myself, this could have gone so differently.

00:15:36.192 --> 00:15:36.761
Right.

00:15:37.116 --> 00:15:45.407
are high that if the teacher had said something to her, she probably wouldn't have come home and said anything to me because she would have been trying to protect me

00:15:45.682 --> 00:15:46.072
Right.

00:15:46.197 --> 00:15:47.326
have kept it inside.

00:15:47.356 --> 00:15:54.547
And then she would have worried every night that I was going to die like this kid with leukemia, who unfortunately.

00:15:55.687 --> 00:15:56.741
Didn't make it.

00:15:56.942 --> 00:15:57.422
Yeah.

00:15:58.164 --> 00:16:04.894
It sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the tree because I did catch that, um, you put this book out, the first book, to publishers

00:16:05.009 --> 00:16:05.169
Mm

00:16:05.315 --> 00:16:06.705
and got rejected

00:16:06.809 --> 00:16:06.950
Mm

00:16:06.965 --> 00:16:07.815
wherever you went.

00:16:08.029 --> 00:16:08.419
Yeah,

00:16:08.705 --> 00:16:09.475
wherever you sent it.

00:16:09.514 --> 00:16:12.274
Um, wasn't big enough audience, I think is what you said.

00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:15.220
Yeah, they said cancer isn't a big enough niche,

00:16:15.485 --> 00:16:16.004
Mm.

00:16:16.004 --> 00:16:16.384
Yeah.

00:16:16.384 --> 00:16:16.764
Yeah.

00:16:16.764 --> 00:16:17.144
Yeah.

00:16:17.620 --> 00:16:20.220
treatment, I was like, are you kidding me?

00:16:20.404 --> 00:16:20.825
Yeah.

00:16:21.315 --> 00:16:21.735
Yeah.

00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:23.309
if this helps two people.

00:16:23.745 --> 00:16:24.254
Right?

00:16:24.269 --> 00:16:25.019
niche for me.

00:16:25.434 --> 00:16:25.945
Yes.

00:16:26.154 --> 00:16:26.725
Right, right.

00:16:26.754 --> 00:16:28.794
Because your purpose is different than their purpose.

00:16:28.794 --> 00:16:31.554
They're a publishing company looking at, counting beans.

00:16:31.945 --> 00:16:32.184
Yeah.

00:16:33.264 --> 00:16:34.544
Um, yeah.

00:16:34.544 --> 00:16:37.065
So you've self-published and you've self-published since.

00:16:37.154 --> 00:16:37.745
Is that correct?

00:16:38.379 --> 00:16:43.460
I really, um, I'm not necessarily opposed to traditional publishing.

00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.940
but I really learned that I am able to react.

00:16:48.914 --> 00:16:54.205
more quickly, you know, the turnaround time with traditional publishing is a long time.

00:16:54.664 --> 00:17:02.014
And I just felt to get this into the hands of as many people as I possibly could.

00:17:02.375 --> 00:17:02.565
And

00:17:02.754 --> 00:17:03.174
Mm-Hmm.

00:17:03.325 --> 00:17:06.355
to other resources that I saw were needed.

00:17:06.744 --> 00:17:23.805
I was just, I'm not entertaining this at this point, because I feel like, you know, my latest book is co written with child life specialist at the Mayo Clinic, and it's all about what happens when someone you love is going to die, like, within the next few weeks.

00:17:24.365 --> 00:17:24.785
Mm-Hmm.

00:17:24.875 --> 00:17:28.095
are literally no resources out there for that conversation.

00:17:29.285 --> 00:17:37.518
according to the child life specialists, uh, most parents are not going to have the conversation and they're just going to try and deal with the grief afterward.

00:17:37.938 --> 00:17:42.327
And I thought, not going to wait, you know, 3 years to

00:17:42.577 --> 00:17:42.998
Mm-Hmm.

00:17:44.178 --> 00:17:47.127
know, from publishers over a topic.

00:17:47.327 --> 00:17:48.678
I think is this important.

00:17:49.553 --> 00:17:49.623
So,

00:17:49.623 --> 00:17:57.393
your background is not only in psychology, but You were, were you working as an illustrator or in the arts before that?

00:17:57.403 --> 00:17:58.782
Or was this something new?

00:17:58.978 --> 00:17:59.357
Um,

00:17:59.413 --> 00:18:00.133
It was

00:18:00.317 --> 00:18:00.508
of new.

00:18:00.857 --> 00:18:15.627
I, sort of and was going to be a therapist and then I started, I got a chronic illness and I had to drop out of my doctoral program and I started an illustration business where I was drawing people's wedding invitations.

00:18:16.448 --> 00:18:20.458
I taught myself how to draw, even though I've been doing it since I was a kid.

00:18:20.827 --> 00:18:27.637
Um, and so all of these pieces sort of come together in this, like, beautiful symphony.

00:18:27.637 --> 00:18:34.817
I was like, I would have never thought that I would have had a career that involved illustration and psychology and, you know, all these different things.

00:18:34.827 --> 00:18:36.137
So cool.

00:18:37.083 --> 00:18:37.593
Yeah.

00:18:37.653 --> 00:18:38.042
Yeah.

00:18:38.042 --> 00:18:39.182
And you get to help people,

00:18:39.242 --> 00:18:39.952
Yes.

00:18:40.538 --> 00:18:40.627
Absolutely.

00:18:41.376 --> 00:18:41.916
I, um.

00:18:42.467 --> 00:18:53.834
I dug deep onto YouTube and I did spot some, um, I think planted videos that you don't intend people to find for a decade.

00:18:55.503 --> 00:18:56.233
where did you do?

00:18:57.128 --> 00:18:58.068
how did you find this?

00:18:58.068 --> 00:18:58.778
Terrifying.

00:18:59.503 --> 00:19:00.547
I found I don't know.

00:19:00.547 --> 00:19:02.567
Maybe you don't even remember you did this, but you turn the camera on.

00:19:02.567 --> 00:19:05.176
There's been like 56 people have watched it to this point.

00:19:05.436 --> 00:19:13.866
Um, so it's not a lot of subscribers or viewers and it has to do with you turning the camera on and looking at the camera and saying, you know, I'm planning this.

00:19:13.896 --> 00:19:14.156
Now.

00:19:14.156 --> 00:19:15.136
I'm not telling my family.

00:19:15.136 --> 00:19:16.186
I'm not telling my friends.

00:19:16.287 --> 00:19:17.307
Here's what's going on.

00:19:17.317 --> 00:19:21.241
And, you know, Write to me in 10 years and I'll still be here to answer your comments.

00:19:21.471 --> 00:19:25.582
And I just want people who are 30 something now with a diagnosis to know that it can be okay.

00:19:25.862 --> 00:19:32.554
And so you were talking to basically your future audience, which was a little eerie, but kind of cool that six years ago.

00:19:32.666 --> 00:19:33.287
creepy.

00:19:33.287 --> 00:19:41.686
I completely forgot I did that and it was because I was on YouTube searching for stories of people that lived because I was terrified.

00:19:41.686 --> 00:19:42.596
I wasn't going to.

00:19:43.084 --> 00:19:45.683
yeah, it was very moving, I'll tell you, because

00:19:45.703 --> 00:19:45.973
thank

00:19:46.034 --> 00:19:47.423
it was clearly heartfelt.

00:19:47.656 --> 00:19:52.203
you weren't on YouTube for any, you know, self promotion purposes.

00:19:52.213 --> 00:19:54.743
That was clearly a sincere

00:19:54.909 --> 00:19:55.548
Yeah.

00:19:55.653 --> 00:19:56.884
to fellow women

00:19:57.219 --> 00:19:57.638
Yeah.

00:19:57.683 --> 00:19:59.614
going to find themselves where you were six years ago.

00:19:59.888 --> 00:20:01.078
Yeah, I totally forgot.

00:20:01.078 --> 00:20:02.409
That was I totally forgot.

00:20:02.409 --> 00:20:02.989
That was a thing.

00:20:04.064 --> 00:20:05.023
Well, don't take it down.

00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:06.669
No, this is, this is,

00:20:07.013 --> 00:20:07.314
All right.

00:20:07.398 --> 00:20:07.528
is.

00:20:07.638 --> 00:20:11.888
any of those 56 people look at that and they're like, she's still alive,

00:20:12.753 --> 00:20:13.453
There you go.

00:20:13.538 --> 00:20:14.338
I did there.

00:20:14.388 --> 00:20:15.038
There it goes.

00:20:15.048 --> 00:20:15.909
That's good for me.

00:20:16.074 --> 00:20:16.354
Yeah.

00:20:16.354 --> 00:20:17.064
Six years down.

00:20:17.328 --> 00:20:17.739
Yeah.

00:20:18.961 --> 00:20:19.320
All right.

00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:20.250
Well, let's switch gears.

00:20:20.290 --> 00:20:20.721
Um.

00:20:21.096 --> 00:20:25.935
You also have a business, besides the books, which are available, I should mention, on your website,

00:20:26.026 --> 00:20:26.425
Yeah,

00:20:26.586 --> 00:20:26.895
which is,

00:20:26.915 --> 00:20:29.826
Amazon and Barnes Noble and all the places.

00:20:29.935 --> 00:20:38.355
yeah, and as long as you spell Sara correctly, S A R A, Olsher, O L S H E R, um, it should be easy to find your books and you.

00:20:38.806 --> 00:20:39.226
Thank you.

00:20:39.635 --> 00:20:40.935
your website is just yourname.

00:20:40.935 --> 00:20:41.605
com, right?

00:20:42.076 --> 00:20:42.655
it is.

00:20:42.796 --> 00:20:43.496
Super simple.

00:20:43.796 --> 00:20:47.996
Um, but you also have a business, and a non profit, is that correct?

00:20:48.405 --> 00:20:52.215
Uh, we actually are folding the nonprofit into the business.

00:20:52.365 --> 00:20:52.736
Okay.

00:20:52.736 --> 00:20:57.806
I realized if you want to do good, just do good and don't overcomplicate things.

00:20:57.836 --> 00:21:03.125
Um, I basically wanted to find a vehicle for donating.

00:21:03.455 --> 00:21:06.746
My books, uh, to children's hospitals.

00:21:07.115 --> 00:21:11.496
And so we've just created a charitable mission around my business.

00:21:11.496 --> 00:21:18.915
So every order that we receive, we donate a book or a treatment calendar to children affected by cancer.

00:21:20.155 --> 00:21:21.375
now we don't need the nonprofit anymore.

00:21:21.375 --> 00:21:23.787
Yeah.

00:21:24.145 --> 00:21:26.006
I mean, simplifying things is always a good thing.

00:21:26.006 --> 00:21:31.736
So, so the business itself, the actual items that you sell are calendars.

00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:33.411
Yeah, ish.

00:21:33.471 --> 00:21:39.000
So it started out, I was doing this actually on the side, just as like as a side hustle.

00:21:39.020 --> 00:21:51.490
when I was diagnosed with cancer, I was selling co parenting calendars, like magnetic co parenting calendars, so that kids could see visually when they would see each parent during the divorce.

00:21:52.510 --> 00:21:58.019
because I thought at the time, I was like, this is the worst thing, you know, it's so awful and stupid.

00:21:58.070 --> 00:21:59.441
So traumatizing,

00:21:59.625 --> 00:22:00.175
Mm hmm.

00:22:00.371 --> 00:22:05.361
everybody's always talking about putting the kids first, but they don't actually tell you how to do that.

00:22:05.576 --> 00:22:06.076
Mm hmm.

00:22:06.451 --> 00:22:10.941
with my background, I knew kids learn in a different way.

00:22:10.941 --> 00:22:15.820
They don't have the executive functioning skills to be able to remember when they're going to see each parent.

00:22:16.141 --> 00:22:17.280
So I created this calendar.

00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:21.540
There were none out there and I just ran it on the side and then.

00:22:22.391 --> 00:22:30.550
When I was diagnosed with cancer, I remember saying to my mom, she, she must have flown to my house somehow because she lived in Oregon.

00:22:30.550 --> 00:22:33.701
And at the time I was in California, she was at my house.

00:22:33.721 --> 00:22:37.840
The day after I was diagnosed with cancer and I said to her.

00:22:38.871 --> 00:22:42.181
just do not want this to be as hard as the divorce was.

00:22:42.540 --> 00:22:45.740
She looked at me and I was like, yeah, it's already harder than the divorce was.

00:22:46.520 --> 00:22:47.401
it's really bad.

00:22:47.746 --> 00:22:48.115
Yeah.

00:22:48.391 --> 00:23:00.000
and that was when I started to realize, you know, from my own personal, you know, There are so many things that kids are going through like anything an adult is going through

00:23:00.135 --> 00:23:00.496
hmm.

00:23:00.780 --> 00:23:02.030
are going through it, too

00:23:02.546 --> 00:23:03.026
Mm hmm.

00:23:03.161 --> 00:23:12.270
that realization You know kind of made me realize this that there were a whole host of things that kids needed shown visually to them.

00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:34.361
And so I started creating a calendar for my daughter so she would understand, when I was going to be at the doctor, when I was going to be at the hospital, you know, I tried to plan out activities with her so that, she had something to look forward to even in the days after chemo when I felt exhausted and I wasn't going to be the mom that I wanted to be for her.

00:23:34.631 --> 00:23:40.121
At least she would be able to look forward to something later in the week when I could anticipate I'd be feeling better.

00:23:40.375 --> 00:23:40.736
Mm hmm.

00:23:40.736 --> 00:23:41.365
Mm

00:23:41.770 --> 00:23:59.300
so then it kind of grew from there and now we have a whole host of different charts basically, uh, for both kids to understand things like what's going on in their lives, like routine charts, that sort of thing, but also breaking things down into smaller steps.

00:23:59.310 --> 00:24:03.800
So if like a kid needs to learn how to clean their room and you just tell them.

00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:05.800
Go in your room and clean your room.

00:24:05.830 --> 00:24:07.691
That can be really overwhelming for kids.

00:24:07.691 --> 00:24:08.040
So we

00:24:08.046 --> 00:24:08.516
hmm.

00:24:08.651 --> 00:24:20.810
that like break it down step by step like first you put away everything that's yellow Then you throw away all the trash, you know all that and then we started getting comments on tiktok from people who were like I need this for adults

00:24:21.435 --> 00:24:21.955
Mm

00:24:23.155 --> 00:24:28.625
I saw that you have, like, and so is it's the magnet that's different or.

00:24:28.885 --> 00:24:32.986
Yeah, so each thing is, we have different charts.

00:24:32.996 --> 00:24:35.105
So 1 of them is like a to do list.

00:24:35.115 --> 00:24:45.340
1 of them is a calendar and then we, we create these sticker sheets where you can essentially, you want Look at all of the different options, depending on what it is.

00:24:45.351 --> 00:24:48.681
Like, we have 1 for division of labor for like adult.

00:24:48.711 --> 00:24:50.490
It's basically an adult short chart

00:24:50.766 --> 00:24:50.776
hmm.

00:24:50.786 --> 00:24:51.076
Mm

00:24:51.270 --> 00:25:00.881
2 of those charts and then you can sit down with your partner and look at all of the things and prioritize what actually needs to be done and then assign them to different people.

00:25:01.090 --> 00:25:06.060
You assemble the whole thing, and then you no longer need to communicate with your partner about.

00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:12.770
Did you take the trash out because you can see it and they can take that magnet from the to do list and they can put it on their weekly calendar.

00:25:12.770 --> 00:25:17.961
So you can see, okay, you're not just planning to, you know, do it someday.

00:25:17.971 --> 00:25:20.510
You actually have a plan to do it on this day.

00:25:20.550 --> 00:25:23.221
And that just decreases the amount of communication.

00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:29.520
Snafu's and resentment, and it becomes really clear if there is 1 partner.

00:25:29.830 --> 00:25:31.520
Who does all the stuff,

00:25:31.756 --> 00:25:32.226
hmm.

00:25:32.226 --> 00:25:34.805
Mm hmm.

00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:36.941
which is very helpful.

00:25:36.941 --> 00:25:40.560
And during treatment is like, that was the thing for me.

00:25:40.560 --> 00:25:44.520
Like, so many things are run through the lens of, like, I am a single mom.

00:25:44.921 --> 00:25:53.381
I am neurodivergent now, I have this whole household running, like, how helpful would it have been to me to have that?

00:25:53.796 --> 00:25:56.165
On the chart, like on my fridge.

00:25:56.165 --> 00:26:01.685
So when friends came over, they could see what needed to be done and just help me out by doing it instead of

00:26:01.931 --> 00:26:02.371
Yeah,

00:26:02.855 --> 00:26:04.665
will you tell me what needs to be done?

00:26:04.855 --> 00:26:07.105
And I'm like, I don't accept help.

00:26:07.125 --> 00:26:10.276
Well, and also I'm too tired to think about this.

00:26:10.665 --> 00:26:11.546
I'll live in filth.

00:26:11.895 --> 00:26:12.435
Hmm.

00:26:13.147 --> 00:26:13.506
yeah,

00:26:13.905 --> 00:26:15.976
Yeah, that's a really good idea.

00:26:15.996 --> 00:26:20.076
I mean, on all of those counts, cause it comes back down that communication idea.

00:26:20.236 --> 00:26:34.318
Like it's clear, you know, whether you're talking with kids or your partner or your friends, That's come up on this podcast before, which is well meaning friends and family coming to person that's going through treatment and you're exhausted and you don't know exactly what you need, but you need a lot of things,

00:26:34.749 --> 00:26:35.459
Yes.

00:26:35.679 --> 00:26:39.479
if there was something on the fridge that simply said, okay, nobody took out the trash this week.

00:26:39.794 --> 00:26:46.644
Or whatever, like whatever you populate it with that you can think of when you're feeling well enough to think of things.

00:26:46.777 --> 00:26:48.717
And I think that's the whole thing, right?

00:26:48.727 --> 00:26:59.626
Because the thinking of the things, I really feel like my brain chemistry was changed during chemo because I didn't have the energy to think about even my own thoughts.

00:26:59.656 --> 00:27:01.567
I was just like watching them go by.

00:27:01.886 --> 00:27:05.797
I couldn't, I couldn't think of all the things that needed to be done.

00:27:05.817 --> 00:27:06.686
And that's true.

00:27:06.707 --> 00:27:11.987
If you have ADHD, a lot of the time, you can't think of the things that need to be done.

00:27:12.007 --> 00:27:13.946
And so we've done all the mental labor.

00:27:14.076 --> 00:27:30.894
for you by giving you, like in the chore chart case, three different sticker sheets that are all organized according to how often they need to be done or what they relate to so you don't actually even need to think about it because the thinking is, don't think it's doable.

00:27:32.183 --> 00:27:32.584
Mm hmm.

00:27:32.894 --> 00:27:33.354
Right.

00:27:33.453 --> 00:27:33.733
Right.

00:27:33.733 --> 00:27:35.584
And, and all of this is like reusable.

00:27:35.624 --> 00:27:36.933
This is not throwaway stuff.

00:27:36.933 --> 00:27:40.624
This is magnets and sheets and put up on the fridge typically.

00:27:40.818 --> 00:27:41.308
Mhm.

00:27:41.358 --> 00:27:41.778
Yeah.

00:27:41.818 --> 00:27:43.479
We have two different kinds.

00:27:43.479 --> 00:27:47.919
One of them is magnetic for refrigerators or it has holes so you can hang it on the wall.

00:27:47.959 --> 00:27:51.989
And then we have this really weird material that sticks to literally anything.

00:27:52.163 --> 00:27:52.354
hmm.

00:27:52.429 --> 00:27:56.989
if you don't have a magnetic refrigerator, you want to put it on the door, you know, works like that too.

00:27:57.384 --> 00:27:58.074
Oh, nice.

00:27:58.263 --> 00:27:58.794
That's awesome.

00:27:59.153 --> 00:28:04.163
so was it was it during your treatment that you also came up with the the special time cards?

00:28:04.624 --> 00:28:05.884
That was post treatment.

00:28:05.903 --> 00:28:07.854
That was actually during the pandemic

00:28:08.054 --> 00:28:08.513
Okay

00:28:08.604 --> 00:28:34.743
collaborated with a parenting coach named Danielle Bettman from Parenting Wholeheartedly to create those because we were really worried about kids mental health and during the pandemic, or if you have multiple kids, or in my case, if you have a chronic illness, or you're going through treatment, there are any number of reasons why playing with your kids can be overwhelming.

00:28:36.104 --> 00:28:40.483
we created these cards that are basically putting structure around.

00:28:40.538 --> 00:28:41.229
Play time.

00:28:41.459 --> 00:28:42.628
So they're color coded.

00:28:42.638 --> 00:28:47.878
You can choose between play active art or chill cards.

00:28:48.219 --> 00:29:02.929
So you as a parent select, you know, however, many cards appealing to you and then you let your kid shoes from those cards about what you want to do and then you play for 15 minutes and then their bucket is filled.

00:29:03.249 --> 00:29:10.459
You did not end up playing the floor is lava when you had chemo yesterday and life is better for everybody.

00:29:11.594 --> 00:29:11.983
Right.

00:29:12.683 --> 00:29:21.703
Well, it's interesting because the, the, the role of expectations, controlling expectations, helping the kids have some less anxiety because it's less, less of a unknown,

00:29:21.753 --> 00:29:22.394
Mm hmm,

00:29:22.594 --> 00:29:27.278
of a You know, just who knows what's going going to be happening tomorrow or the next day or later today for that matter.

00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:33.169
Um, in a sense of some control over it, some, at least some say in what's going to be happening.

00:29:33.838 --> 00:29:37.679
And all these things are are created with that in mind.

00:29:37.699 --> 00:29:43.949
Like the calendars come with these reusable stickers and the idea isn't that you put it together as a parent and then hand it to your kid.

00:29:44.219 --> 00:29:47.608
Like, they love the stickers, so they're helping to put it together.

00:29:47.858 --> 00:29:50.519
Now they have a sense of ownership over it,

00:29:50.888 --> 00:29:52.219
Mm hmm.

00:29:52.398 --> 00:29:56.479
sheet for chronic illness that has, like, a plan a and a plan B.

00:29:56.489 --> 00:30:00.554
So, like, I feel well, we will go play games in the park.

00:30:00.594 --> 00:30:04.614
And then the plan B is, if I don't feel well, we'll play board games at home.

00:30:04.864 --> 00:30:20.134
You can let your kids make the decision about which of these activities you're going to do together and then you're managing their expectations, but you're also giving them a sense of control so that they don't feel like everything is constantly happening to them

00:30:20.459 --> 00:30:20.959
Mm hmm.

00:30:20.993 --> 00:30:22.074
feels long

00:30:22.578 --> 00:30:23.058
Mm hmm.

00:30:23.124 --> 00:30:25.903
it feels long for adults, but it feels extra long for kids.

00:30:26.398 --> 00:30:26.828
Mm hmm.

00:30:27.586 --> 00:30:27.976
Yeah.

00:30:27.976 --> 00:30:30.695
And, and anything that improves communication is good.

00:30:30.695 --> 00:30:32.796
So I can see how this has shifted to the adult world.

00:30:33.205 --> 00:30:33.625
Yes.

00:30:33.905 --> 00:30:36.115
Very, very naturally.

00:30:36.346 --> 00:30:36.705
Uh,

00:30:37.155 --> 00:30:37.855
Yes.

00:30:38.251 --> 00:30:41.271
Yeah, for all of us like late diagnosed ADHD

00:30:42.021 --> 00:30:42.771
Mm hmm.

00:30:43.051 --> 00:30:45.612
especially after treatment, because I went through treatment myself.

00:30:45.642 --> 00:30:48.031
And so I feel like all of that kind of came out

00:30:49.261 --> 00:30:49.951
Yeah, me

00:30:50.071 --> 00:30:50.602
you know,

00:30:51.071 --> 00:30:51.551
yeah,

00:30:52.531 --> 00:30:52.821
whatever,

00:30:52.872 --> 00:30:53.201
yeah,

00:30:53.701 --> 00:30:54.892
we were doing as children.

00:30:55.632 --> 00:30:57.602
it's just like I'm not able to do this anymore.

00:30:57.761 --> 00:30:58.122
Right.

00:30:58.362 --> 00:30:59.102
my brain just does

00:30:59.102 --> 00:30:59.281
Yeah.

00:30:59.311 --> 00:30:59.761
work.

00:30:59.971 --> 00:31:00.271
yeah,

00:31:00.791 --> 00:31:01.048
yeah.

00:31:01.048 --> 00:31:08.648
And I don't know if we mentioned the whole, all of these calendars and that we're talking about and the donation of the books to the places because people buy the calendars.

00:31:08.669 --> 00:31:12.308
Um, that is all happening on a website called Mighty and Bright, which is the name of your company, right?

00:31:12.749 --> 00:31:13.138
Yeah.

00:31:13.489 --> 00:31:13.759
Okay.

00:31:13.808 --> 00:31:14.219
bright.

00:31:14.409 --> 00:31:16.489
Just so people know where to find that if they want to look at that.

00:31:16.679 --> 00:31:19.378
And of course, social media is where people will see you.

00:31:19.378 --> 00:31:21.057
You're most prolific on.

00:31:21.182 --> 00:31:22.883
probably TikTok.

00:31:22.942 --> 00:31:26.992
Um, Mighty and Bright is pretty active on Instagram.

00:31:27.393 --> 00:31:31.153
Um, but I just love TikTok.

00:31:31.153 --> 00:31:32.133
Oh my gosh.

00:31:32.403 --> 00:31:35.423
I like, it is so good for my mental health.

00:31:35.432 --> 00:31:39.603
My whole feed at this point is like silly cats and Taylor Swift.

00:31:39.603 --> 00:31:40.103
I'm just

00:31:40.123 --> 00:31:40.563
Oh,

00:31:40.772 --> 00:31:42.222
brings me a lot of joy.

00:31:43.212 --> 00:31:48.583
you mean when you're, when you're doing it, not your actual content, you're, you're, you're putting some videos out.

00:31:48.817 --> 00:31:51.498
you're, you're, you're scrolling through Katz and Taylor Swift.

00:31:51.508 --> 00:31:52.127
That's awesome.

00:31:52.958 --> 00:31:58.288
no, I, I was wondering if you even had a theater background because you are so animated on TikTok.

00:31:58.288 --> 00:32:07.807
Like, I loved watching, I was just kind of going, starting like at the most recent and just kind of scrolling through and I'm like, I have a theater background and I'm so awkward on TikTok.

00:32:08.613 --> 00:32:25.542
Yeah, it just is practice and pretending like I'm somebody else like the, the, um, the, the, when I have my employee, Katie is like, all of our bloopers are being being like, that was absolutely awful.

00:32:25.573 --> 00:32:27.333
And she's like, well, then you should say this.

00:32:27.333 --> 00:32:32.972
And then I say that, and then I have to cut the whole thing together because the whole thing is me being like, why did I say that?

00:32:32.972 --> 00:32:33.853
That was terrible.

00:32:34.295 --> 00:32:35.194
Well, you can't tell.

00:32:35.204 --> 00:32:35.875
You can't tell.

00:32:35.875 --> 00:32:41.115
You are just so, like, present and, uh, captivating.

00:32:41.115 --> 00:32:41.654
I love it.

00:32:41.674 --> 00:32:44.575
I, yeah, I was really having a lot of fun watching your videos.

00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:45.750
Thank you.

00:32:46.251 --> 00:32:50.612
So, is there anything else that we need to, let our listeners know as far as anything else is going on?

00:32:50.612 --> 00:32:51.001
Oh, you know what?

00:32:51.051 --> 00:32:56.771
I didn't even mention, last year, 2023, you were awarded

00:32:57.186 --> 00:32:57.886
Oh yeah.

00:32:58.251 --> 00:32:59.372
Remarkable Woman

00:32:59.817 --> 00:33:00.626
Yeah.

00:33:00.758 --> 00:33:08.667
I saw it on, okay, so I picked up it on Coinsix News, they had candidates won like every week for a month and then you ended up winning the contest.

00:33:08.667 --> 00:33:09.317
What was that?

00:33:09.798 --> 00:33:17.518
So, uh, Nextstar Media, they own a lot of the news organizations across the country.

00:33:17.528 --> 00:33:28.948
And so they did this whole campaign and they do it every year of trying to recognize women who are doing things that are good for their community, not for the glory, but

00:33:28.978 --> 00:33:29.228
hmm.

00:33:29.587 --> 00:33:31.228
just helping people.

00:33:31.508 --> 00:33:38.998
And so I was nominated somehow in the Pacific Northwest where I live and ended up winning.

00:33:39.208 --> 00:33:59.817
And then they sent me and, um, 107 other women from all over the country to LA and it was so awesome to meet all of these women who are doing most, mostly nonprofit work, work with, you know, homeless kids, homeless seniors, uh, feeding people.

00:33:59.877 --> 00:34:01.097
It was really cool.

00:34:01.548 --> 00:34:05.577
Yeah, I saw the clips on Coinsix News and they made it look like you guys were treated like rock stars.

00:34:05.577 --> 00:34:05.688
Yeah.

00:34:05.688 --> 00:34:05.708
Yeah.

00:34:05.718 --> 00:34:14.568
we totally were, they even gave us a, like, they gave us a star as like the kind that you get on the, um, w of fame.

00:34:14.748 --> 00:34:15.128
Huh?

00:34:15.128 --> 00:34:17.748
Oh,

00:34:17.898 --> 00:34:22.518
a star on the W of fame, you also get a little star that you get to take home with you.

00:34:23.297 --> 00:34:24.117
Oh.

00:34:24.117 --> 00:34:25.467
To take home a little star.

00:34:25.958 --> 00:34:29.438
Don't look for, don't look for my star on the road in a.

00:34:29.728 --> 00:34:31.208
In Hollywood, it is not there.

00:34:32.708 --> 00:34:36.148
well, this isn't this where you're supposed to prop it up behind you as you're, you know,

00:34:36.307 --> 00:34:38.617
Probably this whole thing.

00:34:39.757 --> 00:34:40.597
Oh, that

00:34:41.898 --> 00:34:42.478
Oh, you know?

00:34:42.717 --> 00:34:42.927
Yeah.

00:34:42.927 --> 00:34:43.757
I love that.

00:34:43.768 --> 00:34:58.418
It makes me so happy because it also just reminds me of how many cool people there are out there that are doing so many different things that are making the world a better place, which, you know, if you get overwhelmed by the news, seeing something positive like that

00:34:58.827 --> 00:34:59.717
Absolutely.

00:34:59.898 --> 00:35:01.257
it's everything.

00:35:01.358 --> 00:35:02.007
It's everything.

00:35:02.018 --> 00:35:08.358
I feel like we, we swim in a world of a lot of really good people who do things for the right reasons and just want to help other people.

00:35:08.358 --> 00:35:10.268
And so I, I feel privileged.

00:35:10.708 --> 00:35:15.527
To know so many people like that, but it was great to see it on the news and kind of for a change.

00:35:15.527 --> 00:35:16.117
Some good news.

00:35:16.168 --> 00:35:16.427
Yeah,

00:35:16.507 --> 00:35:17.108
Totally.

00:35:17.248 --> 00:35:17.668
Yes.

00:35:17.697 --> 00:35:24.568
And it was really fun because I got to meet all of the anchors at coin six and they were all so excited for the exact same reason.

00:35:24.568 --> 00:35:28.378
They were like, usually we're covering horrible things and this just makes us so happy.

00:35:28.538 --> 00:35:29.288
Oh, nice.

00:35:30.498 --> 00:35:31.438
Yeah, it was cool.

00:35:32.157 --> 00:35:40.094
Oh, I do want to point out also that have books, a book, for children who are going through cancer themselves.

00:35:40.094 --> 00:35:40.393
Yeah.

00:35:40.809 --> 00:35:41.168
Yeah.

00:35:41.168 --> 00:35:44.949
So it started with the one for when someone you love has cancer.

00:35:44.949 --> 00:35:52.539
And then I had Duke University reach out and say, we use this all the time for children of adult patients.

00:35:52.539 --> 00:35:54.648
Do you have anything for pediatric patients?

00:35:54.929 --> 00:35:58.228
It could be the same explanation, just switched up a little bit.

00:35:58.688 --> 00:36:00.789
And I thought, well, that's a no brainer done.

00:36:00.798 --> 00:36:01.548
So I did that.

00:36:01.579 --> 00:36:06.938
And then reached out again and they said, actually, we would really like one for siblings.

00:36:07.009 --> 00:36:10.349
And again, I'm like, if this helps anybody, I will do it.

00:36:10.778 --> 00:36:16.108
Um, and so I created 1 for siblings and as it turned out, that was a really needed resource.

00:36:16.128 --> 00:36:31.954
The siblings of pediatric patients, because as the parents are, you know, their attention is quite reasonably on the child that is ill, but it makes the sibling feel ignored or left behind a lot of the time.

00:36:31.954 --> 00:36:32.275
So.

00:36:33.389 --> 00:36:43.840
that 1 and then they're all available in Spanish also, and then the Mayo Clinic reached out and said, do you have anything for anticipatory grief?

00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:56.340
And as she and I were talking, we realized we actually need a 2nd book for, you know, the, the stage that is after active treatment.

00:36:57.795 --> 00:37:03.994
And is maybe chronic illness recovering from treatment, or could be, you know, long term treatment.

00:37:03.994 --> 00:37:08.905
If you have metastatic illness, and you have to kind of set expectations for your kids.

00:37:09.235 --> 00:37:12.664
So we created what happens when someone I love doesn't feel good.

00:37:12.965 --> 00:37:23.824
And that book is really great for people who have metastatic disease, or who, like me, just their body just did not work right for years after treatment.

00:37:24.204 --> 00:37:26.764
That one was kind of inspired by my daughter who.

00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:45.041
Had a birthday party she was going to, where they were walking in the 100 degree heat to the park, then having a picnic, playing tag out in the, you know, grass 100 degrees, then walking back to the house, then going to the arcade and doing paintball after that.

00:37:45.121 --> 00:37:54.601
And my daughter was like, mom, I knew that you weren't playing tag because you weren't going to have enough energy for all the things and you were saving it for paintball.

00:37:55.521 --> 00:37:56.070
I thought.

00:37:56.543 --> 00:37:58.253
I think we need to have a book about this.

00:38:00.512 --> 00:38:24.083
So, because I don't think there, there's a lot of things that you just don't think about until after it's over, you know, and if you had resources that were like, hey, your kid probably needs to know this, it would make it so much easier for parents to have the conversation and then kids are going to feel so much better having heard that information and been prepared for, for it.

00:38:24.684 --> 00:38:26.114
I think it's commendable.

00:38:26.114 --> 00:38:34.429
Also that you see that your challenges are somewhat universal challenges and then recognizing that you can do something to help others.

00:38:34.878 --> 00:38:43.684
Get through it, even if you're looking at it in retrospect in your own life and going, Oh, Well, they're basically creating what you, what would be nice for you to have found

00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:44.699
Yes,

00:38:44.974 --> 00:38:47.713
So it's, it's, it's really organic and very authentic.

00:38:47.713 --> 00:38:52.914
And I think that's also, really noticeable in everything that you do is it's, it's heartfelt.

00:38:53.304 --> 00:38:54.614
So yeah.

00:38:54.708 --> 00:39:10.059
really felt strongly, you know, I had breast cancer, but I mean, I have lots of friends who had colon cancer, stomach cancer, brain cancer I did not want to create resources that were specific to breast cancer.

00:39:10.338 --> 00:39:15.708
I didn't want to create resources that were specific in some cases, even just to cancer, like

00:39:15.824 --> 00:39:16.253
Mm hmm.

00:39:16.568 --> 00:39:17.759
about not feeling good.

00:39:18.548 --> 00:39:19.539
could be cancer.

00:39:19.588 --> 00:39:20.688
It could be ALS.

00:39:21.259 --> 00:39:36.829
We have like a guide in the back that will help you explain the science behind literally anything we could think of from multiple sclerosis to depression in kids speak because there are any number of reasons why an adult's body might not feel good.

00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:38.918
Yeah, that's great.

00:39:39.608 --> 00:39:43.983
Again, just seeing the need, and then filling the need is a great way to go about this.

00:39:44.043 --> 00:39:44.393
And

00:39:44.413 --> 00:39:44.762
Thanks.

00:39:44.932 --> 00:39:51.282
I'm sure it's a big reason for the success of the book and various cancer centers and universities integrating it into their, their program.

00:39:51.302 --> 00:39:52.512
So kudos.

00:39:52.932 --> 00:39:53.563
Thank you.

00:39:54.262 --> 00:39:55.523
Makes me want to buy the whole set.

00:39:55.737 --> 00:39:56.527
I know,

00:39:56.693 --> 00:39:56.952
Thanks.

00:39:57.038 --> 00:40:00.697
I love how, like, you know, you have Duke approaching you.

00:40:00.737 --> 00:40:04.827
I mean, you have like these major centers, coming to you

00:40:04.893 --> 00:40:05.543
Yeah,

00:40:05.797 --> 00:40:07.378
saying, you know, create this.

00:40:07.483 --> 00:40:07.853
out.

00:40:07.952 --> 00:40:19.782
I mean, honestly, I remember the 1st time I got a huge bulk order, from a major cancer center that, I recognized I was like, this is insane.

00:40:19.793 --> 00:40:26.253
And then after I wrote the kids book and I had, you know, Saint Jude, I was like, I have arrived.

00:40:26.632 --> 00:40:31.652
I don't care if I make one cent off of this, those kids, this

00:40:31.773 --> 00:40:32.393
Yeah.

00:40:33.012 --> 00:40:34.512
Yeah, it feels really good.

00:40:35.117 --> 00:40:36.208
Yeah, It's awesome.

00:40:36.494 --> 00:40:38.994
Well, thanks for joining us today.

00:40:39.076 --> 00:40:40.295
Thank you for having me.

00:40:40.322 --> 00:40:52.206
I'm so happy that you made some time and that our listeners get to learn about your books and your products and I, I encourage everyone to go check it out online and as simple as going to Amazon, you can find it there too.

00:40:52.206 --> 00:40:53.927
Um,

00:40:53.936 --> 00:40:56.097
we'll mention the website again, mightyandbright.

00:40:56.961 --> 00:40:59.141
Yes, for the calendars.

00:40:59.141 --> 00:41:04.061
And then Sarah Olsher, with no H, I should probably get it with an H too, but saraholsher.

00:41:04.061 --> 00:41:05.661
com is for the books.

00:41:05.661 --> 00:41:09.561
Yes,

00:41:09.677 --> 00:41:14.137
that purchasing the calendar ends up giving the book a book gets given away.

00:41:15.126 --> 00:41:18.407
So that's gifting a book to, people in need.

00:41:19.137 --> 00:41:20.606
So, yeah, thank you so much.

00:41:20.606 --> 00:41:21.186
This is great.

00:41:21.246 --> 00:41:23.067
Um, it's been a pleasure getting to know you.

00:41:23.077 --> 00:41:26.376
Maybe we'll run into you sometime in, uh, in the Portland, Salem area.

00:41:26.396 --> 00:41:26.827
Who knows?

00:41:26.842 --> 00:41:27.351
awesome.

00:41:27.376 --> 00:41:29.586
Well, you're, are you, are you in currently in

00:41:29.612 --> 00:41:30.161
All right,

00:41:30.177 --> 00:41:31.896
Thanks for listening to The Cancer Pod.

00:41:32.257 --> 00:41:36.746
Remember to subscribe, review, and rate us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:38.900
Follow us on social media for updates.

00:41:39.121 --> 00:41:41.911
And as always, this is not medical advice.

00:41:42.021 --> 00:41:43.471
These are our opinions.

00:41:43.695 --> 00:41:47.125
Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan.

00:41:47.365 --> 00:41:49.376
The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, Dr.

00:41:49.376 --> 00:41:51.056
Leah Sherman, and by Dr.

00:41:51.056 --> 00:41:51.885
Tina Kaczor.

00:41:52.365 --> 00:41:54.106
Music is by Kevin MacLeod.

00:41:54.686 --> 00:41:55.806
See you next time.