Sara Olsher on Communication and Kids

[00:00:00] Sara Olsher: I've done a lot of public speaking and teaching, um, parents with cancer metastatic disease, or, you know, early stage and a lot of them come up to me afterward and say, I didn't think I could use the word cancer.

[00:00:13] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

[00:00:14] Sara Olsher: kids,

[00:00:14] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:00:16] Sara Olsher: understand why I need to use that word. I now know how I can explain it in a way that isn't terrifying. Um, I, I think a lot of parents think that they are protecting their kids by not explaining it, but it actually turns out. You know, the exact opposite

[00:00:35] Tina: I'm Dr Tina Kaczor

[00:00:36] Leah: and I'm Dr Leah Sherman

[00:00:38] Tina: And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

[00:00:42] Leah: But we're not your doctors

[00:00:44] Tina: This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

[00:00:49] Leah: do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

[00:00:53] Tina: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

[00:00:59] Leah: Welcome to the cancer pod

[00:01:05] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Hey, Tina,

[00:01:06] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Hey, Leah.

[00:01:07] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: how much fun was this conversation?

[00:01:10] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I had a great time. I think

[00:01:14] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: This was such a good interview. I said, I know we say this all the time, but it really was. We spoke with Sarah Ulsher who is the creator of and Bright. She underwent some major life changes and um She took her experience as a cancer survivor and experience through divorce and she created this business.

She wrote a book, um, ended up writing 12 books. I guess that's what she's up to now. she has these, schedules that she's created through Mighty and Bright where you can use them with kids to help them kind of manage their lives. And, I don't know. I don't want to give too much away, but that's kind of the summary.

Do you think that's a good summary?

[00:02:06] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: that's a good summary. I think that, yeah, faced with challenges, she saw how universal some of her challenges are, and she set about finding solutions, not just for her own kid, but more applicable broadly for other folks out there who

[00:02:21] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Yeah,

[00:02:21] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: are single moms or have cancer diagnoses and have to go through that.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:02:30] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: eloquent now. And it was a really great conversation. I don't know if we mentioned at the end, but she, we did talk about her TikTok. Um, she has an Instagram, it's mightyandbrightco, C O. So if we failed to mention that, we'll also have links in the show notes, um, to how you can find her, including her websites and how to order the books and everything.

But,

[00:02:53] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. And as always, I mean, the whole idea here is for our listeners to gain some knowledge that is either helpful for them personally or for their loved ones or someone they know. I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of really useful tidbits in here. I think that can be helpful for people.

[00:03:07] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: yeah, and this is one of the first ones. I'm gonna leave. Um, to people about, you know, like family being kind of part of this whole cancer world. Um, but this is the one where we really talk about, you know, kids and the impact it has on kids. And so

[00:03:21] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah.

[00:03:21] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: of a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a new world for us, but a

[00:03:26] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah,

[00:03:26] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: it's a whole new world.

[00:03:28] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah, yeah, it's definitely a big, a steep learning curve for me, um, because I don't have kids. So,

[00:03:35] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: either.

[00:03:36] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah, so the challenges I understand them in the abstract and I can only appreciate the fact that I only know them in the abstract that that's a lot different to live through it. I would imagine.

[00:03:46] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Yeah, and we've had patients, obviously, who have children and, you know, trying to work with them through some of these issues that come up. I wish I knew about the solution before, because this would be something that I would definitely recommend

[00:04:00] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yes.

[00:04:00] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: patients,

[00:04:01] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Totally agree. Having some tools to help bring kids along and help them through it and lessen their anxiety that they might have.

[00:04:09] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: right?

[00:04:09] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah, yeah, it was a great conversation.

[00:04:12] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: okay, so before we get to the episode, Remember, you can follow us on Instagram, we're on TikTok, YouTube, if watching this video on YouTube, hello there, um, uh, and we are listener supported, I sound like NPR.

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[00:05:05] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Without further ado, here's our guest,

hello, Sarah. Thank you for joining us.

Thank

[00:05:09] Sara Olsher: you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat with you.

[00:05:11] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. We did some looking online and you're quite prolific with your books. And so I can see that this has been going on about five years from what I can tell, maybe longer in your storyline, but as far as what's been published, Amazon and such, um, Can you start us out with a little of what inspired you and your background on creating these books specifically for children and helping children understand what's going on with their parents during treatment for cancer?

[00:05:40] Sara Olsher: Yeah, absolutely. so my background is in psychology and I was like running a business on the side that was very much about kids, mental health and like, how to help them through transitions and hard things. Um, so I had like, a background knowledge of kind of how kids cope when something hard happens. and I really needed that because when I was 34 and my daughter was 6. I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I, I was divorced at the time and I had a family history of breast cancer. And so I had just been advocating for myself for a long time, like, hey, I think I need early screenings and then I started to have this weird sensation and my left breast that felt like breast milk being let down. I had kind of gotten. Poo pooed by my doctor, um, previously about the early screening. She was like, yeah, you know, unless you have a 1st degree relative, we're no longer doing, you know, early detection and I had literally every single woman in my family on both sides had breast cancer, except for my mother at that point. Um, my dad's side of the family is Ashkenazi Jewish. I had. No genetic screenings, nothing. And I just thought this is ridiculous. So when I started having that weird sensation, I just thought I should a go get this checked out. And B, I'm no longer taking no for an answer at this point, because my mom had just been diagnosed with breast cancer, um, postmenopausal breast cancer.

She just had a lumpectomy. It was really like. Not that big of a deal in the breast cancer world. Um, and so I went into the doctor. She didn't feel anything, but she got me into the early screening program and so I went in for my baseline MRI. They said, we see something kind of funny, but we often see things that are kind of funny.

[00:07:36] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:07:36] Sara Olsher: so I went in for a ultrasound and a diagnostic mammogram at 4 PM on a Friday afternoon. And And the radiologist looked very serious looking at my ultrasound I said, what is going on? Like, am I going to need a biopsy? And he looks at me and says, do you want me to be frank? I'm thinking, yeah, like, I don't want to wait off all weekend.

[00:08:03] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right.

[00:08:04] Sara Olsher: And he said, what we are seeing can be nothing other than cancer and you are going to need your entire left breast removed I was very much in shock. I was like, no, no, I, I don't think you understand. Like, I'm 34.

[00:08:20] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right.

[00:08:21] Sara Olsher: a single mom. This is not part of my plan.

[00:08:25] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:08:26] Sara Olsher: so I don't, know, I don't know what you're talking about and I literally had to have this man talk to my parents on the phone because my dad was a doctor and explain to them what was going on.

 because I couldn't process it

[00:08:40] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:08:41] Sara Olsher: that I had DCIS. And it turned out, uh, so I was going to go in for a preventative double mastectomy. I was like, don't leave one of them. Just take it all. Um, and when I woke up from that surgery, it turned out that it had actually spread to my lymph nodes already.

I never had a tumor. If I had not gone in and advocated for myself, I probably would not be sitting here. That was 7 years ago.

[00:09:08] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: So, wait, wait, wait. You never had a tumor. You mean they didn't, uh, they didn't identify a tumor itself?

[00:09:14] Sara Olsher: calcifications all the way up from my nipple, all the way to my lymph nodes.

[00:09:20] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: So there was nothing palpable. You couldn't feel it.

[00:09:23] Sara Olsher: not a

[00:09:23] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh wow.

[00:09:24] Sara Olsher: at any point, I

[00:09:26] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Okay.

[00:09:26] Sara Olsher: a single thing, even right before my surgery, there was no lump. So, uh, obviously, super terrifying, and, um, my number one fear, even when I thought it was stage zero, was what, Am I going to do about my daughter? Because

[00:09:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:09:45] Sara Olsher: our background was that she had really severe anxiety and like she was diagnosed with separation anxiety. Like I was her person

[00:09:53] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm. Mm

[00:09:55] Sara Olsher: only thing I could think about was like her tear stained face at my funeral.

Like

[00:10:00] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:10:00] Sara Olsher: dark,

[00:10:01] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: And how old was she at this time that she was six when you were diagnosed. Okay. And just to clarify, is this lobular or ductal?

[00:10:08] Sara Olsher: it was, uh, ductal.

[00:10:10] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: It was ductile. Okay.

[00:10:11] Sara Olsher: Mm hmm.

[00:10:12] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Because lobular often doesn't, isn't palpable. That's why I was asking. Like that's not uncommon,

[00:10:16] Sara Olsher: and my mom had lobular.

That was that first diagnosis she had, and then the year after I had cancer, she was diagnosed in her other breast with ductal.

[00:10:27] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Okay.

[00:10:27] Sara Olsher: we've had a whole lot of cancer in my family.

[00:10:30] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:32] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: In a short period of time.

[00:10:34] Sara Olsher: a cancer sandwich. We have pictures of my mom and I with no hair together.

[00:10:39] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Well, yeah, that's a hell of a way to bond.

[00:10:41] Sara Olsher: Mm hmm. Yeah, my dad was like, this is not a good group activity. Can you

[00:10:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah, right. Exactly. All right, so, so your daughter was six.

[00:10:52] Sara Olsher: and so what I did was because I had this background in psychology and specifically with, you know, helping kids cope with transitions like divorce. I, knew that I needed to explain things to her. I couldn't just, you know, pretend like everything was okay and have her be fine because I knew she was going to notice like the change in the air.

She was going to know something wasn't right. And so my go to with any like big thing was like, I'm going to go get a book to help me explain this to her. So. I think I bought probably six books and got another like four at the library

[00:11:32] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:11:32] Sara Olsher: Them home and was immediately like, well, this is a no. I mean, one of the books, like on an Amazon literally had a surgeon holding a bloody knife and I was

[00:11:41] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh my god.

[00:11:42] Sara Olsher: who let this go?

[00:11:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: That's right. That's for a children's book.

[00:11:46] Sara Olsher: Yes.

[00:11:47] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Whoa.

[00:11:48] Sara Olsher: but the thing that I realized, like. After looking through all those books was I actually wanted to explain to her what cancer was. And

[00:11:56] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:11:57] Sara Olsher: this was 7 years ago, there was nothing out there that explained the science of cancer in a way that. I mean, even probably an adult could understand on a basic level. It

[00:12:08] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:12:09] Sara Olsher: children's books about it. so I kind of had to come up with my own method of explaining it to her and I so that. Explanation, which we can get into if you would like, but that kind of served as a basis for what I did during my treatment, because I immediately took a leave of absence from work, but the way I kept my brain occupied was writing my first book and illustrating it.

[00:12:35] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah Yeah, and the name of that book because jotted that one down What Happens When Someone I Love Has Cancer

[00:12:40] Sara Olsher: Mm hmm.

[00:12:41] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Explain the science Of cancer and how a loved one's diagnosis and treatment affects a kid's day to day life.

[00:12:46] Sara Olsher: Mm

[00:12:47] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: was its subtitle, right? um, and that's still available.

[00:12:51] Sara Olsher: used in children's hospitals all over the country. It's

really yeah. Thank you. It really is what I. This, I just have such a passion for helping parents have really difficult conversations with their kids, because if there's no resources out there, what I've learned is parents will just not have a conversation, because they

[00:13:11] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that is the biggest compliment to any author is readership, right? That's what you want. You want it to get it out there, especially self help books or books that will help parents bridge their conversations with their kids. I did look at some interviews you did online and communication was, was really the crux of what you want to get out there is, is helping bridge the communication gap out there between the adults and the kids.

[00:13:36] Sara Olsher: For sure, for sure. Yeah, I would say, I've done a lot of public speaking and teaching, um, parents with cancer metastatic disease, or, you know, early stage and a lot of them come up to me afterward and say, I didn't think I could use the word cancer.

[00:13:53] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

[00:13:54] Sara Olsher: kids,

[00:13:55] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:13:56] Sara Olsher: understand why I need to use that word. I now know how I can explain it in a way that isn't terrifying. Um, I, I think a lot of parents think that they are protecting their kids by not explaining it, but it actually turns out. You know, the exact opposite and I had to explain to my daughter to, you know, I'm really young and so cancer is a really big word.

That means a lot of different things and it can mean, a really big, illness where people are sick for a really long time. Some, some people die and that isn't the type of cancer that I have, but the people. Who you're going to talk to or I'm going to talk to are going to have a strong reaction because they don't know what type of cancer I have.

[00:14:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

[00:14:45] Sara Olsher: this conversation with you so that you don't get scared when you see how other people react,

[00:14:51] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm. Mm

[00:14:52] Sara Olsher: mostly this happens to older people. And so they're going to be surprised.

[00:14:56] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:14:56] Sara Olsher: You know, and even just that conversation protected her from her second grade teacher who, who they were writing these little cards for a kid with terminal leukemia

[00:15:10] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm.

[00:15:11] Sara Olsher: teacher pulled her aside and said, are you okay?

Because this kid has the same thing your mom has

[00:15:17] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Oh.

[00:15:18] Sara Olsher: and my 2nd

[00:15:19] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh wow.

[00:15:20] Sara Olsher: said, that kid doesn't have the same thing. My mom has. is what my mom has. That kid does not have what my mom has.

[00:15:29] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh good for her.

[00:15:31] Sara Olsher: I just thought to myself, this could have gone so differently.

[00:15:36] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right.

[00:15:37] Sara Olsher: are high that if the teacher had said something to her, she probably wouldn't have come home and said anything to me because she would have been trying to protect me

[00:15:45] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right.

[00:15:46] Sara Olsher: have kept it inside.

And then she would have worried every night that I was going to die like this kid with leukemia, who unfortunately. Didn't make it.

[00:15:56] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. It sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the tree because I did catch that, um, you put this book out, the first book, to publishers

[00:16:05] Sara Olsher: Mm

[00:16:05] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: and got rejected

[00:16:06] Sara Olsher: Mm

[00:16:06] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: wherever you went.

[00:16:08] Sara Olsher: Yeah,

[00:16:08] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: wherever you sent it. Um, wasn't big enough audience, I think is what you said.

[00:16:12] Sara Olsher: Yeah, they said cancer isn't a big enough niche,

[00:16:15] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:17] Sara Olsher: treatment, I was like, are you kidding me?

[00:16:20] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:21] Sara Olsher: if this helps two people.

[00:16:23] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right?

[00:16:24] Sara Olsher: niche for me.

[00:16:25] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yes. Right, right. Because your purpose is different than their purpose. They're a publishing company looking at, counting beans. Yeah. .

Um, yeah. So you've self-published and you've self-published since. Is that correct?

[00:16:38] Sara Olsher: I really, um, I'm not necessarily opposed to traditional publishing. but I really learned that I am able to react. more quickly, you know, the turnaround time with traditional publishing is a long time. And I just felt to get this into the hands of as many people as I possibly could. And

[00:17:02] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:03] Sara Olsher: to other resources that I saw were needed. I was just, I'm not entertaining this at this point, because I feel like, you know, my latest book is co written with child life specialist at the Mayo Clinic, and it's all about what happens when someone you love is going to die, like, within the next few weeks.

[00:17:24] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:24] Sara Olsher: are literally no resources out there for that conversation. according to the child life specialists, uh, most parents are not going to have the conversation and they're just going to try and deal with the grief afterward. And I thought, not going to wait, you know, 3 years to

[00:17:42] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm-Hmm.

[00:17:44] Sara Olsher: know,

from publishers over a topic.

I think is this important.

   So,

[00:17:49] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: your background is not only in psychology, but You were, were you working as an illustrator or in the arts before that? Or was this something new?

[00:17:58] Sara Olsher: Um,

[00:17:59] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: It was

[00:18:00] Sara Olsher: of new. I,

sort of

and was going to be a therapist and then I started, I got a chronic illness and I had to drop out of my doctoral program and I started an illustration business where I was drawing people's wedding invitations. I taught myself how to draw, even though I've been doing it since I was a kid. Um, and so all of these pieces sort of come together in this, like, beautiful symphony. I was like, I would have never thought that I would have had a career that involved illustration and psychology and, you know, all these different things. So cool.

[00:18:37] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. Yeah. And you get to help people,

[00:18:39] Sara Olsher: Yes. Absolutely.

[00:18:41] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I, um. I dug deep onto YouTube and I did spot some, um, I think planted videos that you don't intend people to find for a decade.

[00:18:55] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: where did you do?

[00:18:57] Sara Olsher: how did you

find this? Terrifying.

[00:18:59] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I found

I don't know. Maybe you don't even remember you did this, but you turn the camera on. There's been like 56 people have watched it to this point. Um, so it's not a lot of subscribers or viewers and it has to do with you turning the camera on and looking at the camera and saying, you know, I'm planning this.

Now. I'm not telling my family. I'm not telling my friends. Here's what's going on. And, you know, Write to me in 10 years and I'll still be here to answer your comments. And I just want people who are 30 something now with a diagnosis to know that it can be okay. And so you were talking to basically your future audience, which was a little eerie, but kind of cool that six years ago.

[00:19:32] Sara Olsher: creepy. I completely forgot I did that and it

was because I was on YouTube searching for stories of people that lived because I was terrified. I wasn't going to.

[00:19:43] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah, it was very moving, I'll tell you, because

[00:19:45] Sara Olsher: thank

[00:19:46] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: it was clearly heartfelt. you weren't on YouTube for any, you know, self promotion purposes. That was clearly a sincere

[00:19:54] Sara Olsher: Yeah.

[00:19:55] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: to fellow women

[00:19:57] Sara Olsher: Yeah.

[00:19:57] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: going to find themselves where you were six years ago.

[00:19:59] Sara Olsher: Yeah, I totally forgot. That was I totally forgot. That was a thing.

[00:20:04] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Well, don't take it down.

[00:20:05] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: No, this is, this is,

[00:20:07] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: All right.

[00:20:07] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: is.

[00:20:07] Sara Olsher: any of those 56 people look at that and they're like, she's still alive,

[00:20:12] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: There you go.

[00:20:13] Sara Olsher: I did there. There it goes. That's good for me.

[00:20:16] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah. Six years down.

[00:20:17] Sara Olsher: Yeah.

[00:20:18] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: All right. Well, let's switch gears. Um. You also have a business, besides the books, which are available, I should mention, on your website,

[00:20:26] Sara Olsher: Yeah,

[00:20:26] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: which is,

[00:20:26] Sara Olsher: Amazon and Barnes Noble and all the places.

[00:20:29] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah, and as long as you spell Sara correctly, S A R A, Olsher, O L S H E R, um, it should be easy to find your books and you.

[00:20:38] Sara Olsher: Thank

you.

[00:20:39] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: your website is just yourname. com, right?

[00:20:42] Sara Olsher: it is.

[00:20:42] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Super simple. Um, but you also have a business, and a non profit, is that correct?

[00:20:48] Sara Olsher: Uh, we actually are folding the nonprofit into the business.

[00:20:52] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Okay.

[00:20:52] Sara Olsher: I realized if you want to do good, just do good and don't overcomplicate things. Um, I basically wanted to find a vehicle for donating. My books, uh, to children's hospitals. And so we've just created a charitable mission around my business.

So every order that we receive, we donate a book or a treatment calendar to children affected by cancer. now we don't need the nonprofit anymore. Yeah.

[00:21:24] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I mean, simplifying things is always a good thing. So, so the business itself, the actual items that you sell are calendars.

[00:21:32] Sara Olsher: Yeah, ish. So it started out, I was doing this actually on the side, just as like as a side hustle. when I was diagnosed with cancer, I was selling co parenting calendars, like magnetic co parenting calendars, so that kids could see visually when they would see each parent during the divorce. because I thought at the time, I was like, this is the worst thing, you know, it's so awful and stupid.

So traumatizing,

[00:21:59] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:22:00] Sara Olsher: everybody's always talking about putting the kids first, but they don't actually tell you how to do that.

[00:22:05] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:22:06] Sara Olsher: with my background, I knew kids learn in a different way. They don't have the executive functioning skills to be able to remember when they're going to see each parent. So I created this calendar.

There were none out there and I just ran it on the side and then. When I was diagnosed with cancer, I remember saying to my mom, she, she must have flown to my house somehow because she lived in Oregon. And at the time I was in California, she was at my house. The day after I was diagnosed with cancer and I said to her. just do not want this to be as hard as the divorce was. She looked at me and I was like, yeah, it's already harder than the divorce was. it's really bad.

[00:22:47] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah.

[00:22:48] Sara Olsher: and that was when I started to realize, you know, from my own personal, you know, There are so many things that kids are going through like anything an adult is going through

[00:23:00] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:23:00] Sara Olsher: are going through it, too

[00:23:02] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:23:03] Sara Olsher: that realization You know kind of made me realize this that there were a whole host of things that kids needed shown visually to them.

And so I started creating a calendar for my daughter so she would understand, when I was going to be at the doctor, when I was going to be at the hospital, you know, I tried to plan out activities with her so that, she had something to look forward to even in the days after chemo when I felt exhausted and I wasn't going to be the mom that I wanted to be for her. At least she would be able to look forward to something later in the week when I could anticipate I'd be feeling better.

[00:23:40] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm. Mm

[00:23:41] Sara Olsher: so then it kind of grew from there and now we have a whole host of different charts basically, uh, for both kids to understand things like what's going on in their lives, like routine charts, that sort of thing, but also breaking things down into smaller steps.

So if like a kid needs to learn how to clean their room and you just tell them. Go in your room and clean your room. That can be really overwhelming for kids. So we

[00:24:08] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:24:08] Sara Olsher: that like break it down step by step like first you put away everything that's yellow Then you throw away all the trash, you know all that and then we started getting comments on tiktok from people who were like I need this for adults

[00:24:21] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm

[00:24:23] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: I saw that you have, like, and so is it's the magnet that's different or.

[00:24:28] Sara Olsher: Yeah, so each thing is, we have different charts. So 1 of them is like a to do list. 1 of them is a calendar and then we, we create these sticker sheets where you can essentially, you want Look at all of the different options, depending on what it is. Like, we have 1 for division of labor for like adult.

It's basically an adult short chart

[00:24:50] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm. Mm

[00:24:51] Sara Olsher: 2 of those charts and then you can sit down with your partner and look at all of the things and prioritize what actually needs to be done and then assign them to different people. You assemble the whole thing, and then you no longer need to communicate with your partner about. Did you take the trash out because you can see it and they can take that magnet from the to do list and they can put it on their weekly calendar. So you can see, okay, you're not just planning to, you know, do it someday. You actually have a plan to do it on this day. And that just decreases the amount of communication. Snafu's and resentment, and it becomes really clear if there is 1 partner. Who does all the stuff,

[00:25:31] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:25:35] Sara Olsher: which is very helpful. And during treatment is like, that was the thing for me. Like, so many things are run through the lens of, like, I am a single mom. I am neurodivergent now, I have this whole household running, like, how helpful would it have been to me to have that? On the chart, like on my fridge. So when friends came over, they could see what needed to be done and just help me out by doing it instead of

[00:26:01] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Yeah,

[00:26:02] Sara Olsher: will you tell me what needs to be done?

And I'm like, I don't accept help. Well, and also I'm too tired to think about this. I'll live in filth.

[00:26:11] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Hmm.

[00:26:13] Sara Olsher: yeah,

[00:26:13] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah, that's a really good idea. I mean, on all of those counts, cause it comes back down that communication idea. Like it's clear, you know, whether you're talking with kids or your partner or your friends, That's come up on this podcast before, which is well meaning friends and family coming to person that's going through treatment and you're exhausted and you don't know exactly what you need, but you need a lot of things,

[00:26:34] Sara Olsher: Yes.

[00:26:35] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: if there was something on the fridge that simply said, okay, nobody took out the trash this week.

Or whatever, like whatever you populate it with that you can think of when you're feeling well enough to think of things.

[00:26:46] Sara Olsher: And I think that's the whole thing, right? Because the thinking of the things, I really feel like my brain chemistry was changed during chemo because I didn't have the energy to think about even my own thoughts. I was just like watching them go by. I couldn't, I couldn't think of all the things that needed to be done.

And that's true. If you have ADHD, a lot of the time, you can't think of the things that need to be done. And so we've done all the mental labor. for you by giving you, like in the chore chart case, three different sticker sheets that are all organized according to how often they need to be done or what they relate to so you don't actually even need to think about it because the thinking is, don't think it's doable.

[00:27:32] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm. Right. Right. And, and all of this is like reusable. This is not throwaway stuff. This is magnets and sheets and put up on the fridge typically.

[00:27:40] Sara Olsher: Mhm. Yeah. We have two different kinds. One of them is magnetic for refrigerators or it has holes so you can hang it on the wall. And then we have this really weird material that sticks to literally anything.

[00:27:52] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:27:52] Sara Olsher: if you don't have a magnetic refrigerator, you want to put it on the door, you know, works like that too.

[00:27:57] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Oh, nice.

That's awesome.

[00:27:59] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: so was it

was it during your treatment that you also came up with the the special time cards?

[00:28:04] Sara Olsher: That was post treatment. That was actually during the pandemic

[00:28:08] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Okay

[00:28:08] Sara Olsher: collaborated with a parenting coach named Danielle Bettman from Parenting Wholeheartedly to create those because we were really worried about kids mental health and during the pandemic, or if you have multiple kids, or in my case, if you have a chronic illness, or you're going through treatment, there are any number of reasons why playing with your kids can be overwhelming. we created these cards that are basically putting structure around. Play time. So they're color coded. You can choose between play active art or chill cards. So you as a parent select, you know, however, many cards appealing to you and then you let your kid shoes from those cards about what you want to do and then you play for 15 minutes and then their bucket is filled. You did not end up playing the floor is lava when you had chemo yesterday and life is better for everybody.

[00:29:11] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Right. Well, it's interesting because the, the, the role of expectations, controlling expectations, helping the kids have some less anxiety because it's less, less of a unknown,

[00:29:21] Sara Olsher: Mm hmm,

[00:29:22] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: of a You know, just who knows what's going going to be happening tomorrow or the next day or later today for that matter. Um, in a sense of some control over it,

some, at least some say in what's going to be happening.

[00:29:33] Sara Olsher: And all these things are are created with that in mind. Like the calendars come with these reusable stickers and the idea isn't that you put it together as a parent and then hand it to your kid. Like, they love the stickers, so they're helping to put it together. Now they have a sense of ownership over it,

[00:29:50] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:29:52] Sara Olsher: sheet for chronic illness that has, like, a plan a and a plan B.

So, like, I feel well, we will go play games in the park. And then the plan B is, if I don't feel well, we'll play board games at home. You can let your kids make the decision about which of these activities you're going to do together and then you're managing their expectations, but you're also giving them a sense of control so that they don't feel like everything is constantly happening to them

[00:30:20] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:30:20] Sara Olsher: feels long

[00:30:22] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:30:23] Sara Olsher: it feels long for adults, but it feels extra long for kids.

[00:30:26] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm. Yeah. And, and anything that improves communication is good. So I can see how this has shifted to the adult world.

[00:30:33] Sara Olsher: Yes.

[00:30:33] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Very, very naturally. Uh,

[00:30:37] Sara Olsher: Yes.

[00:30:38] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Yeah, for all of us like late diagnosed ADHD

[00:30:42] Sara Olsher: Mm hmm.

[00:30:43] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: especially after treatment, because I went through treatment myself. And so I feel like all of that kind of came out

[00:30:49] Sara Olsher: Yeah, me

[00:30:50] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: you know,

[00:30:51] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah,

[00:30:52] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: whatever,

[00:30:52] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah,

[00:30:53] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: we were doing as children.

[00:30:55] Sara Olsher: it's just like I'm not able to do this anymore.

[00:30:57] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Right.

[00:30:58] Sara Olsher: my brain just does

[00:30:59] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Yeah.

[00:30:59] Sara Olsher: work.

[00:30:59] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: yeah,

[00:31:00] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: yeah. And I don't know if we mentioned the whole, all of these calendars and that we're talking about and the donation of the books to the places because people buy the calendars. Um, that is all happening on a website called Mighty and Bright, which is the name of your company, right?

[00:31:12] Sara Olsher: Yeah.

[00:31:13] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Okay.

[00:31:13] Sara Olsher: bright.

[00:31:14] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Just so people know where to find that if they want to look at that.

And of course, social media is where people will see you. You're most prolific on.

[00:31:21] Sara Olsher: probably TikTok. Um, Mighty and Bright is pretty active on Instagram. Um, but I just love TikTok. Oh my gosh. I like, it is so good for my mental health. My whole feed at this point is like silly cats and Taylor Swift. I'm just

[00:31:40] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Oh,

[00:31:40] Sara Olsher: brings me a lot of joy.

[00:31:43] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: you mean when you're, when you're doing it, not your actual content, you're, you're, you're putting some videos out.

[00:31:48] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: you're, you're, you're scrolling through Katz and Taylor Swift. That's awesome. no, I, I was wondering if you even had a theater background because you are so animated on TikTok. Like, I loved watching, I was just kind of going, starting like at the most recent and just kind of scrolling through and I'm like, I have a theater background and I'm so awkward on TikTok.

[00:32:08] Sara Olsher: Yeah, it just is practice and pretending like I'm somebody else like the, the, um, the, the, when I have my employee, Katie is like, all of our bloopers are being being like, that was absolutely awful. And she's like, well, then you should say this. And then I say that, and then I have to cut the whole thing together because the whole thing is me being like, why did I say that?

That was terrible.

[00:32:34] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Well, you can't tell. You can't tell. You are just so, like, present and, uh, captivating. I love it. I, yeah, I was really having a lot of fun watching your videos.

[00:32:44] Sara Olsher: Thank you.

[00:32:46] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: So, is there anything else that we need to, let our listeners know as far as anything else is going on? Oh, you know what? I didn't even mention, last year, 2023, you were awarded

[00:32:57] Sara Olsher: Oh yeah.

[00:32:58] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Remarkable Woman

[00:32:59] Sara Olsher: Yeah.

[00:33:00] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I saw it on, okay, so I picked up it on Coinsix News, they had candidates won like every week for a month and then you ended up winning the contest.

What was that?

[00:33:09] Sara Olsher: So, uh, Nextstar Media, they own a lot of the news organizations across the country. And so they did this whole campaign and they do it every year of trying to recognize women who are doing things that are good for their community, not for the glory, but

[00:33:28] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: hmm.

[00:33:29] Sara Olsher: just helping people. And so I was nominated somehow in the Pacific Northwest where I live and ended up winning.

And then they sent me and, um, 107 other women from all over the country to LA and it was so awesome to meet all of these women who are doing most, mostly nonprofit work, work with, you know, homeless kids, homeless seniors, uh, feeding people. It was really cool.

[00:34:01] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah, I saw the clips on Coinsix News and they made it look like you guys were treated like rock stars. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:05] Sara Olsher: we totally were, they even gave us a, like, they gave us a star as like the kind that you get on the, um, w of fame.

[00:34:14] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Huh? Oh,

[00:34:17] Sara Olsher: a star on the W of fame, you also get a little star that you get to take home with you.

[00:34:23] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh.

[00:34:24] Sara Olsher: To take home a little star. Don't look for, don't look for my star on the road in a. In Hollywood, it is not there.

[00:34:32] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: well, this isn't this where you're supposed to prop it up behind you as you're, you know,

[00:34:36] Sara Olsher: Probably this whole thing.

[00:34:39] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Oh, that

[00:34:41] Sara Olsher: Oh, you know? Yeah. I love that. It makes me so happy because it also just reminds me of how many cool people there are out there that are doing so many different things that are making the world a better place, which, you know, if you get overwhelmed by the news, seeing something positive like that

[00:34:58] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Absolutely.

[00:34:59] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: it's everything. It's everything. I feel like we, we swim in a world of a lot of really good people who do things for the right reasons and just want to help other people. And so I, I feel privileged. To know so many people like that, but it was great to see it on the news and kind of for a change. Some good news.

Yeah,

[00:35:16] Sara Olsher: Totally. Yes. And it was really fun because I got to meet all of the anchors at coin six and they were all so excited for the exact same reason. They were like, usually we're covering horrible things and this just makes us so happy.

[00:35:28] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh, nice.

[00:35:30] Sara Olsher: Yeah, it was cool.

[00:35:32] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Oh, I do want to point out also that have books, a book, for children who are going through cancer themselves. Yeah.

[00:35:40] Sara Olsher: Yeah. So it started with the one for when someone you love has cancer. And then I had Duke University reach out and say, we use this all the time for children of adult patients. Do you have anything for pediatric patients? It could be the same explanation, just switched up a little bit. And I thought, well, that's a no brainer done.

So I did that. And then reached out again and they said, actually, we would really like one for siblings. And again, I'm like, if this helps anybody, I will do it. Um, and so I created 1 for siblings and as it turned out, that was a really needed resource. The siblings of pediatric patients, because as the parents are, you know, their attention is quite reasonably on the child that is ill, but it makes the sibling feel ignored or left behind a lot of the time.

So. that 1 and then they're all available in Spanish also, and then the Mayo Clinic reached out and said, do you have anything for anticipatory grief? And as she and I were talking, we realized we actually need a 2nd book for, you know, the, the stage that is after active treatment. And is maybe chronic illness recovering from treatment, or could be, you know, long term treatment.

If you have metastatic illness, and you have to kind of set expectations for your kids. So we created what happens when someone I love doesn't feel good. And that book is really great for people who have metastatic disease, or who, like me, just their body just did not work right for years after treatment. That one was kind of inspired by my daughter who. Had a birthday party she was going to, where they were walking in the 100 degree heat to the park, then having a picnic, playing tag out in the, you know, grass 100 degrees, then walking back to the house, then going to the arcade and doing paintball after that.

And my daughter was like, mom, I knew that you weren't playing tag because you weren't going to have enough energy for all the things and you were saving it for paintball. I thought. I think we need to have a book about this. So, because I don't think there, there's a lot of things that you just don't think about until after it's over, you know, and if you had resources that were like, hey, your kid probably needs to know this, it would make it so much easier for parents to have the conversation and then kids are going to feel so much better having heard that information and been prepared for, for it.

[00:38:24] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I think it's commendable. Also that you see that your challenges are somewhat universal challenges and then recognizing that you can do something to help others. Get through it, even if you're looking at it in retrospect in your own life and going, Oh, Well, they're basically creating what you, what would be nice for you to have found

[00:38:44] Sara Olsher: Yes,

[00:38:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: So it's, it's, it's really organic and very authentic. And I think that's also, really noticeable in everything that you do is it's, it's heartfelt.

So yeah.

[00:38:54] Sara Olsher: really felt strongly, you know, I had breast cancer, but I mean, I have lots of friends who had colon cancer, stomach cancer, brain cancer I did not want to create resources that were specific to breast cancer. I didn't want to create resources that were specific in some cases, even just to cancer, like

[00:39:15] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Mm hmm.

[00:39:16] Sara Olsher: about not feeling good. could be cancer. It could be ALS. We have like a guide in the back that will help you explain the science behind literally anything we could think of from multiple sclerosis to depression in kids speak because there are any number of reasons why an adult's body might not feel good.

[00:39:37] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah, that's great. Again, just seeing the need, and then filling the need is a great way to go about this. And

[00:39:44] Sara Olsher: Thanks.

[00:39:44] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I'm sure it's a big reason for the success of the book and various cancer centers and universities integrating it into their, their program. So kudos.

[00:39:52] Sara Olsher: Thank

you.

[00:39:54] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Makes me want to buy the whole set.

[00:39:55] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: I know,

[00:39:56] Sara Olsher: Thanks.

[00:39:57] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: I love how, like, you know, you have Duke approaching you. I mean, you have like these major centers, coming to you

[00:40:04] Sara Olsher: Yeah,

[00:40:05] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: saying, you know, create this.

[00:40:07] Sara Olsher: out. I mean, honestly, I remember the 1st time I got a huge bulk order, from a major cancer center that, I recognized I was like, this is insane. And then after I wrote the kids book and I had, you know, Saint Jude, I was like, I have arrived. I don't care if I make one cent off of this, those kids, this

[00:40:31] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah.

[00:40:33] Sara Olsher: Yeah, it feels really good.

[00:40:35] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: Yeah, It's awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today.

[00:40:39] Sara Olsher: Thank you for having

me.

[00:40:40] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: I'm so happy that you made some time and that our listeners get to learn about your books and your products and I, I encourage everyone to go check it out online and as simple as going to Amazon, you can find it there too.

Um,

[00:40:53] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: we'll mention the website again, mightyandbright.

[00:40:56] Sara Olsher: Yes, for the calendars. And then Sarah Olsher, with no H, I should probably get it with an H too, but saraholsher. com is for the books. Yes,

[00:41:09] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: that purchasing the calendar ends up giving the book a book gets given away. So that's gifting a book to, people in need. So, yeah, thank you so much. This is great. Um, it's been a pleasure getting to know you. Maybe we'll run into you sometime in, uh, in the Portland, Salem area.

Who knows?

[00:41:26] Sara Olsher: awesome.

[00:41:27] Leah Sherman, ND, RYT: Well, you're, are you, are you in currently in

[00:41:29] Tina Kaczor, ND, FABNO: All right,

[00:41:30] Leah: Thanks for listening to The Cancer Pod. Remember to subscribe, review, and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates. And as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, Dr.

Leah Sherman, and by Dr. Tina Kaczor. Music is by Kevin MacLeod. See you next time.