Pesticides: The New Smoking?

[00:00:00] Leah: Tina.

[00:00:01] Tina: Leah

[00:00:02] Leah: did you hear that there's a new smoking?

[00:00:05] Tina: Yes. Well, sitting is the new smoking, but that's not what you're talking about.

[00:00:09] Leah: Sitting was the new smoking and now there's a new now there's a new sitting. I can't keep up with it. First, there was the original smoking.

[00:00:20] Tina: Which is bad for multiple systems. Lung cancer was the big reason in our world of cancer care, but many other cancers, breast cancer,

[00:00:28] Leah: And other health issues, right? Heart disease, lung disease, I mean, you know, secondhand smoke, thirdhand smoke, all of those were found to be bad for people.

[00:00:38] Tina: Yes. And the data was very clear that we have had a, an improvement when people stopped smoking so much. We've had improvements in all of those. Chronic diseases

[00:00:47] Leah: Right. So, we all know smoking is bad for you. And then, how many years ago was it that we learned sitting was bad for you?

[00:00:54] Tina: sitting is the new smoking was kind of a big deal in 2010. So it's 14 years ago now.

[00:00:58] Leah: Yeah, so it's kind of passé. So the whole thing with that was that people who were sitting at their desk on their job for eight hours plus

[00:01:09] Tina: Mm hmm.

[00:01:10] Leah: had an increased risk of chronic diseases, including the increased risk of cancer.

[00:01:17] Tina: Yeah, colorectal cancers breast cancer Prostate cancer there was data on many cancers and an increased risk with prolonged sedentary periods, prolonged sitting how much is too much sitting and being sedentary. It's a little bit of a moving target. Certainly anything over six hours in the data looks like it's starting to show increased risk.

So getting up and moving. Even if you have a desk job, making sure that you move, you take your breaks, you, keep moving. You were mentioning squats off the radio here.

[00:01:48] Leah: Off the radio. Offline.

[00:01:50] Tina: Offline.

[00:01:52] Leah: There was an article that I had read that if you work a desk job or any job where you are sitting most of the day, if you stand up every 30 minutes and do some squats, there was a period of time you were supposed to do the squats.

I don't remember if it was 30 seconds of squats. I can't remember. But if you just stand up, move, do some squats, Set an alarm on your phone, whatever, that was supposed to be good. What was interesting is that if people had sedentary jobs and then we're like these weekend workout warriors, that didn't really show any benefit.

[00:02:23] Tina: Right. Cause it has to be movement on a daily basis, but that's why we have, what's very popular now is standing desks or desks that are used over a treadmill where people are actually walking during their meeting they'll just have a computer over their treadmill, a little stand there.

[00:02:39] Leah: It works for people who, yeah, work from home or, you know, attend meetings over zoom, which I guess is more popular now, but it doesn't work for everybody.

[00:02:48] Tina: I have a. stationary bicycle desk, which is gathering dust as we speak, because you know what I can't do when I'm biking is type. I don't go to a lot of meetings. I type a lot and I do a lot of like engaged activity on my computer like that. And so it's a great idea though. I mean, it might work for other folks.

I've seen those where there's like a little pedal,

[00:03:09] Leah: Or, you know, pedals underneath the desk. Um, but yeah, I think I would have a hard time multitasking. I can't even read while walking on a treadmill. I watch TV because that way I'm not really doing anything.

[00:03:21] Tina: right, right. I want to get a balance board for my standing desk. So I have a desk, you know, that is standing. I can adjust it up and down. I want to get a balance board just to do something while I'm standing there.

[00:03:34] Leah: Well, while you're standing every 30 minutes, do some squats.

[00:03:37] Tina: I probably do do that quite a bit. Actually, I do intentionally move around because I don't want my joints all getting all stiff. I am in my 50s. So you know, got to keep my flexibility and squat down quite a bit just to keep limber.

[00:03:50] Leah: Use it or lose it as they say.

[00:03:56] Tina: I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one

[00:04:00] Leah: and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside

[00:04:03] Tina: And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

[00:04:07] Leah: But we're not your doctors

[00:04:09] Tina: This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only

do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

[00:04:24] Leah: Welcome to the cancer pod

So, so there is a, there is a new smoking and a new sitting. And we both saw the article like at the same time, pretty much it came out in Medscape.

[00:04:54] Tina: you want a drumroll?

[00:04:55] Leah: We need a drumroll. We're going to insert a drumroll here. It's pesticides.

[00:05:00] Tina: Pesticide, which we in our profession as naturopathic docs and naturopaths around the world, whether they're physicians or what they call barefoot naturopaths, you know, lay naturopaths around the world. We have quite a few listeners out in Australia. Hello, Australia. Um, we are all against these things.

Pesticides, right? I mean, this is not something that's. Going to be new for us and our recommendations. I think that the headline hopefully will motivate more people to make the change away from exposures if they can.

[00:05:33] Leah: Yeah. And the biggest exposure comes from people who work around them. So whether it's a landscaper, home gardener, it's people who live in farming communities, whether they work on the farm. Directly or just live in the community.

[00:05:48] Tina: well in this piece that you and I read from Medscape, which was basically a, a news briefing on a study that happened. So it was a breakdown of that study and how. Pesticides are the new smoking. The Midwest has higher rates in the United States. And that is where there's an immense amount of pesticide usage for Big Ag.

[00:06:10] Leah: and the article specifically mentioned corn. The states in the study that the article discussed were Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska, Missouri, Indiana, and Ohio and Florida because there is an ag component down there in Florida. I mean, Indiana. So much corn. So much corn.

[00:06:29] Tina: I didn't realize there was that much agriculture in Florida. I, I, I thought maybe it was more like, uh, well, I guess it would be, huh? I bet I was thinking it was more like manicured and landscaped areas. You know, they got to keep the critters out. Hmm. Mm

[00:06:42] Leah: it's pretty surprising, um, driving in between, you know, South Florida and then going a bit north. Um, my dad is buried in a, um, military cemetery. I don't know. It's not quite central Florida, but yeah, no, there's tons of agriculture out there between driving from, you know, Pompano beach and heading up towards Lake Worth.

It's yeah.

[00:07:05] Tina: Yeah. Well, and. Like you mentioned, occupational exposures for farmers, I mean, that's kind of been a rumbling for decades in the data and I think that has been looked at because occupational exposures are something that are looked at specifically because it's such a high exposure probably more than anyone else is going to be exposed and more, consistently exposed.

The whole communities are being affected because there's also spray through aerial sprayers that then go into the land, that then seeps into their water tables that they then drink from their wells

[00:07:36] Leah: Right.

[00:07:37] Tina: Not to mention just aerial sprays not being very specific.

[00:07:40] Leah: Oh, for sure. And then I think I've mentioned on another episode, but I remember having. A patient who talked about when they were a kid running behind like the, the bug spray, whatever was, was being sprayed.

[00:07:54] Tina: It was DDT based then. Yeah. I was gonna say I don't know what they're using today.

[00:07:59] Leah: and I don't know if they still have those trucks that

like blast things. they're spraying communities because of the mosquitoes in

[00:08:05] Tina: certain communities Yeah, I don't know what they're using

[00:08:08] Leah: so I want to kind of define pesticides. Cause I think when we think of pesticides. Um, we just think of like insects, you know, but I did look up to see what was considered a pesticide in agriculture and it includes herbicides and fungicides and insecticides.

And so the, Definition that I found said that they're chemicals designed to eliminate and control animal and plant life that can adversely affect agriculture or domestic life. So it's kind of all lumped together. So when I typically think of pesticide, I'm just thinking of like the stuff you spray to get rid of ants or whatever, but it's, it also includes the herbicides and fungicides that are used.

[00:08:41] Tina: Yeah. And the amount that is used, oh gosh, I forgot the amount. It was a lot. I want to say Roundup or glyphosate alone was like, 188 million tons or some, some like, I'm going to look at it. I'm going to look at this up cause I just looked it up before we started talking. And it was the amounts we're talking about that are put on our crops.

Mind blowing. All right, here we go. From 2012 to 2016, approximately 281 million pounds of glyphosate, and that's Roundup, were applied to just under 300 million acres annually on average. Soybeans get the most, 117 million pounds, corn, 94. 9 million pounds, and cotton, 20 million pounds. And it just goes on and on.

It says the Midwest region of the United States used about 65 percent of the nation's total glyphosate in 2016. Um, and its use has increased dramatically since its introduction in 1996. And the reason we introduced it in case anyone wants to know that history is because we genetically engineered plants that could handle it.

1. Because the plants can handle it, we can pour more of it on there and they survive it.

[00:09:52] Leah: Right. And that's the roundup is like weed killer. It's like what people spray in their, on their lawns or, you know, their xeriscaping or whatever. It's yeah, it's weed killer.

[00:10:03] Tina: Yeah, sorry to say, glyphosate is more of a weed killer than a pesticide. I always put pesticides and herbicides as, like, one in my brain.

[00:10:09] Leah: No, no, but it is. No, that's what that was. The definition was an herbicide is included as a pesticide,

[00:10:16] Tina: Oh, okay.

[00:10:17] Leah: according to the definition that I found. So no, it counts. It does count. Um, I, again, forgive me if I repeat myself, but when I flew out to interview for the residency in Indiana, I check into the hotel, I put on the TV, and the first thing I saw was a Roundup commercial.

I mean, there were so many commercials, like, on that visit. I saw a lot of Roundup being advertised, and I mean, I'm like, so sketched out by Roundup. You know, it's been with my dogs, right? Walking around the neighborhood, you see like, somebody spraying something, and I'm like, you know, reminding myself, don't go to that.

Lawn until, you know, at least, I don't know how long it's bad, but, you know, at least until it's dry several days, I'm sure, but,

[00:11:01] Tina: And the issue with glyphosate specifically is it's very close to the amino acid glycine. And there is evidence showing that it might be able to be integrated into places that the natural amino acid glycine should be. And when glyphosate gets integrated in, instead of glycine, that monkeys up with the tissue that it's being used in.

And glycine's used in tissues throughout the body, but the most, um, kind of glaring effect is in animals and in horses on their connective tissue. It weakens their connective tissue. And so, It leaves me wondering I mean, we're getting way more injuries than we used to have in young people doing sports.

 it leaves this big question mark in my brain that I think to myself, is it maybe weakened? tendons and ligaments, because this is the world we live in now. I mean, unless you were brought up 100 percent organic from day one and, and live away from these communities.

[00:11:55] Leah: And live in a bubble, a hundred percent organic. And you live in a bubble where you're not exposed to anything. Um, and the, the big thing, speaking of commercials, you know, there are tons of ads that I have been bombarded with probably because I'm searching for certain keywords, but you know, the increased risk of, Lymphoma non Hodgkin's lymphoma from glyphosate exposure and several people have won lawsuits.

so yeah, and those are landscapers or, you know, people who are around it all the time.

[00:12:26] Tina: Yeah, and that's just one of, how many was in that study? Was there 69 different chemical compounds that were in that one study that we're talking about? the Medscape article, Comprehensive Assessment of Pesticide Use Patterns and Increased Cancer Risk. That's the name of the article.

Okay. Yeah, it is 69 pesticides in their table, 69 pesticides of agricultural interest that are monitored by the U. S. Department of Agriculture and are reported by county that were included in this study. So there's way more than glyphosate, um, The findings from this paper saw there was an association between pesticide use and increased incidence of, I'm just going to give you them all, leukemia, non Hodgkin's lymphoma, bladder cancer, colon cancer, lung cancer, pancreatic cancer, and cancers combined, that are comparable to smoking for some of those cancers.

So that's why we're saying pesticide exposures are the new smoking. Because the risk is the same as if you were smoking.

[00:13:20] Leah: yeah. And it pointed out that pesticides contributed to a higher risk for cancer than smoking in certain cases. Um, and then with non Hodgkin's lymphoma. Pesticides were linked to 154 percent more cases than smoking.

[00:13:35] Tina: Wow.

[00:13:36] Leah: And they accounted for smoking. they accounted for, um, you know, environmental factors as well that can contribute to cancer.

So they kind of looked at a lot of stuff.

[00:13:48] Tina: So one of the issues, and not to be a big downer, but the issue is that these pesticides are used on almost all of our crops. It said in 2021, 96% of the 93.4 million acres of corn planted in the United States, herbicides were used, pesticides, herbicides, 96% of all of it. And so it's ubiquitous.

[00:14:10] Leah: Yeah, and you know, one of the reasons why pesticides are used is because it does increase yields. And so in, you know, this is global, this isn't just the U S and so across the world where there are, concerns with people getting enough food, the use of pesticides has increased yields. And so, there is that benefit because organic farms that don't use pesticides.

 Have up to 50 percent lower yields. And organic farms will use chemicals that are natural. There's still chemicals, but they are natural. as opposed to the synthetic pesticides and those tend to break down, more rapidly, um, there still is risk, you know, of. Causing health issues. If you're exposed to these natural, um, pesticides, they also use other methods like, netting crops and, uh, planting, you know, what's it called?

I want to say symbiotic planting. I can't remember the word, but you're planting. Yeah. You're planting, you know, different things to kind of. deter pests, you know, from, from your plant and rotating crops, all of that, like you rotate your crops. And so if you're always planting your cruciferous vegetables in the same area, you're going to be more prone to getting those types of pests and diseases that, you know, stick with them.

So you know, there, there are all of these things that you can do. It's just, you're not going to be able to mass produce for an entire country.

[00:15:37] Tina: that was the key word, mass production. I agree with everything you've said. And we have to remember that most of that corn that we're growing is not to be eaten. Most of that corn that we're growing

is, is for feed and for fuel. So do we need however million, acres for corn to, I mean, in a idealistic society, people would have gardens again. You know, we would have Gardens and grow some food locally or have farmer's markets. All this is growing. I'm actually really encouraged with our current trends in society because people are more aware of this. So there's local farmers, there's local farmers markets.

Um, buying from small vendors is going to be helpful because local foods are going to be cleaner. That's all there is to it.

[00:16:21] Leah: They're, but they're still using these pesticides because I've tried to grow apples We have a really old apple tree out front It's so hard and you know people want a pretty apple They don't want a wormhole in an apple that you have to cut around. It's really hard to grow apples

[00:16:39] Tina: I didn't think so. I had apple trees in Eugene. We got really nice apples. I sprayed it with sulfur.

[00:16:45] Leah: Oh, see, I haven't sprayed mine with anything. I tried doing the um, putting the little stockings around them and that didn't really help

[00:16:51] Tina: Sulfur's a nasty, one day, stinky job that you just, you know, put it on the hose and spray the bejeebies out of it, but it does work for a couple years in a row.

[00:17:00] Leah: Yeah, I need to do that. And then also we have rust, which is, I think it's a kind of a fungus that comes from the juniper trees that are around.

[00:17:08] Tina: And neem.

[00:17:09] Leah: oh yeah, I've used neem before, but yeah, you have to be more diligent. It's a lot more work.

[00:17:14] Tina: do. Well, work, Tina. I know but my point, maybe that's part of the point Maybe we should go back to a little bit more of that

[00:17:21] Leah: Then, then we wouldn't be sitting so

[00:17:22] Tina: exactly we got to be getting up anyways But it is true I mean think about that I mean if you if you do have space to grow food it does Forced you to go out and put your hands in the soil and some of those soil organisms aren't such a bad thing either, organic soil, fresh food, you know, greens, I think are like the intro to everything because you can grow greens, they, you clip them and they grow right back.

[00:17:50] Leah: Well, the thing with greens is you can grow them if you live in an apartment and have a sunny window. You can grow greens. You know, they don't want extremes and temperatures. They kind of like things a little cool, so you can just get a little, you know, window box, even on the inside and, and try to grow some greens.

Or, my favorite thing is to regrow food that you've already used. And so if you use. Spring or green onion and you cut it down and there's still some white part left you stick that in some water You know, you can like regrow food and then reuse the green part will continue to grow And you just snip that and keep using it You know, I guess it's easier if it's just like one or two people if it's a whole family It does get to be a little harder to grow that much food

[00:18:36] Tina: sure. I totally agree with that. I just, I think big ag is a big problem in the United States. It's an industry. It has created an industry and it's highly subsidized. Um, which means that we prop it up, and it's not healthy.

[00:18:50] Leah: Which we've talked about and I know we've talked about this in other episodes You know, especially with corn and soy

[00:18:58] Tina: Yeah. And I'm not here to political. It's not about that. It's about the health of the end product. Right. And so we're creating markets for these by products because we are destined to grow that much. Um, and these aren't family farms I'm talking about. I'm talking about agricultural businesses.

These are gigantic. I mean, there's big pharma. There's big ag too. Yeah.

[00:19:19] Leah: Right. Monocrops, like huge, like monocrops and stuff. And I know they do rotate. Cause I have seen that where it's like, they plant the corn and then they then they plant the soy and then they plant the corn and then they plant the soy, but you're just doing these two major, like pesticide heavy crops.

[00:19:35] Tina: Yeah, I think we have to look at ourselves as part of a very large ecosystem. And we are just one organism of many, of millions. And so when we monocrop millions of acres at once, um, what that does to the soil, what that does to the air quality, what that does to our ingestion of these chemicals that we're talking about today.

I don't think it's how we're meant to do it. To exist. I think we're meant to exist more in harmony with our surroundings than that. But that's philosophical, I suppose. That's a naturopathic point of view, Right. Yeah,

[00:20:08] Leah: it's an ideal point of view, but the reality of the population of the world, because again, I'm not just thinking of the U S but just the population of the world, um, and different circumstances in which people live different environments, it does make it harder. To do that. So, you know, you're living in a desert where are you getting your food from?

I did not. Now I'm thinking Arizona, there's a lot of agriculture in Arizona, which is so surprising because it is a desert and they bring that water in.

[00:20:38] Tina: that's a whole, I mean, I am idealistic. You're right, because I don't think we should be growing most of our crops in desert climates. I just don't. I think that that was a bad idea in the first place

But that's what I mean by big ag. I think that if it shrank down and you did different model of agriculture, we would be, we would probably have more water.

[00:20:56] Leah: And other people would have less money in their pockets.

[00:20:59] Tina: Yeah, there's that. I think that a lot of it, when it became Big Ag as in capital B, capital A in a big business, then it's all about the money. It's not about the product or the health.

[00:21:10] Leah: It's not about the health. Yeah. It's not about the health of, as we learned from smoking when it came out, that there were studies initially that showed that smoking was bad for you. And those had been suppressed.

[00:21:23] Tina: Yeah, and you know, you said you're thinking about the whole world. You know, we in the United States, we do allow more toxicity in our crops than other countries do. chemicals that are banned or discouraged in Europe. And it's unfortunate, but that's just the way it is right now.

 Um, I did go to the EPA website and look at how they classify carcinogenic pesticides and herbicides. It's fairly convoluted, and what they don't do is give you a list. They don't give you a list of their findings. They do have a system, just like the World Health Organization does, of ranking the likely carcinogenic potential of various compounds.

They did say that if we tested it a while ago, we're not going to retest it because our resources are limited. so even though we have better means of testing it now, we're not going to redo anything that was old.

[00:22:14] Leah: Is that the international Agency for Research on Cancer? Is that who,

[00:22:18] Tina: That's the WHO group that, that has the classic, monographs on carcinogens. I'm talking about the EPA. The EPA does something similar, but they're nowhere near as transparent with the information. As a matter of fact, instead of putting the name of the pesticide, they just put One comma four dash pesticide instead of the the

proper name.

Yeah, instead of saying one for organochlorine or whatever people are searching for. So I feel like it's a little bit, um, Opaque, but what can we do about all this? That's the question. I guess, you know without harping on how bad it is We probably should talk about what we recommend people do.

[00:22:56] Leah: Well, I think the first thing is if somebody is not able to purchase organic to make sure that when you do purchase your fruits and vegetables, wash them.

[00:23:08] Tina: And, I think you've brought this up before, the Environmental Working Group can give you some prioritizing of which ones are the worst culprits when it comes to pesticide laden fruits and vegetables.

[00:23:19] Leah: Right, the, the soft skinned, um, berries and fruits, that sort of thing. But if that's right, but if that's your only option, wash them. I mean, I don't know how many times, I mean, I know organic berries are sprayed and I don't know how many times I'll just be like, Ooh, berries. And I'll just start eating them before washing them.

And I'm guilty of that myself. Um, I don't know if it has any effect. One thing I started doing with my berries is I wash them with a little bit of vinegar. Vinegar and that's mostly just to kind of keep them from going bad because organic berries go bad so quickly Um, they turn really fast And so I had read somewhere that if you add a little vinegar to your your rinse water, it helps to keep berries fresh longer.

[00:24:02] Tina: Does it work?

[00:24:02] Leah: it seems to work. Yeah, absolutely I don't know if it's doing anything, you know, in terms of washing off any residue, but you know, peel your fruits. If, if you have an apple, if you're concerned about this, then peel your apples. Um, if they're not organic, I know probably, I'm going to just guess the majority of people who listen to us might not be able to afford all organic all the time.

Um, I know when I am in the Midwest, it's not always available.

[00:24:32] Tina: hmm.

[00:24:33] Leah: And so it's like, I don't stress about it. I just make sure that I wash the foods and, you know, my preference is to have something organic. I am in a position where that can be like, You know, priority on my grocery list, but I know it isn't for everybody.

[00:24:49] Tina: Right.

Right.

[00:24:50] Leah: you also have to think that when you're eating those berries, even if they're not organic, you're still getting health benefits from them. You know, just maybe if you're not able to eat organic, then try not to use those pesticides in your garden or something, try to reduce those exposures, other places in your life.

[00:25:07] Tina: Right. Being mindful. First of all, don't use them, right? I mean, if you must use them, take full precautions not to ingest through your inhalation route or your skin or even your eyes. Take full precautions if your job requires you to use them, that kind of thing.

Don't take those precautions lightly. I mean, yeah, just avoid them. I mean, Home Depot has an immense number of pesticides and herbicides. So I know people are still using them at home quite a bit, right? There are natural alternatives to some of these things. I mean, for me, I have, I have to take out these gnarly little weeds that get in my dog's paws.

They're, they're hard. They're in the high desert. we try to hit that with 20 or 30 percent vinegar to defoliate them. And then once they're They defoliate after a day or two. Then we come back with a torch and light all this, all of it on fire.

[00:26:00] Leah: yeah, I mean, there are, there are definitely things that people can do around the house to kind of lessen that. I think one of the things is if we get away from these manicured lawns.

That are so like, it's so ingrained in our society to have these beautiful green manicured lawns and you go out and you mow them and they're just perfect. And there are no weeds. I mean, if I'm looking out at my yard right now, it's well, it's Portland. And so this time of year, nobody waters anything or very few people water.

So it's like dead grass, but then I have my vegetable gardens, you know?

[00:26:32] Tina: And can I share that your, one of your vegetable gardens is on your front lawn.

[00:26:36] Leah: They both are. Both of my vegetable gardens are on my front lawn because if they were on the back lawn, the dogs would eat them. Um, would eat them. It would be hard to get the dogs out. And we get more sun in the front. And so, yeah. No. That's. It's always been that way. We had a house when we lived in Southeast Portland where the side garden was this like beautiful manicured, like English garden when I moved in.

And by the time I was done with it, there were, I think at least three garden beds and a chicken coop. You know, in this like nice neighborhood that we were living in. So, yeah, I mean, I know that it looks really pretty to have this gorgeous manicured lawn, but you're not helping anybody. You can't eat it.

You know, we just had, we just came out of this like huge, like lockdown situation where it was like, it was hard to get food, start growing it. If you have the ability, if you have the ability, if you live in an apartment building and there's a, a community garden, you know, like try to grow your own food.

[00:27:36] Tina: it's interesting. Cause it's really just a change of mindset Right. Because I think we tend to do whatever is culturally the norm in our area. And I've driven across the U S a few times and I, it's right when I hit the Midwest that I start to see the large lawns and then it continues all the way through, uh, you know, I'll go all the way to the east and, uh, you know, we're, we're talking riding tractors are required, right?

These are big lawns.

[00:28:00] Leah: And you see that out here too, though, in Portland, you know, in the, in certain neighborhoods there,

you know, that is kind of the thing too. I think the front yard garden in my neighborhood is the norm.

[00:28:10] Tina: Mm hmm. Interesting. Yeah. So I'm saying that because I think there is a cultural aspect to this and I'm talking like regional sub regional town down to the zip code. Right? Like, this is like, what do people do in your area? Yeah. There is a movement. I saw this on, I don't know where Facebook or something put up pictures about how people were, um, taking their lawn out and putting in meadows and gardens.

And a lot of it was to keep the bees coming and to feed hummingbirds and things like that. But there's no reason you can't do that and feed yourself. That was kind of a neat movement. I see it going on in several neighborhoods in Texas. Like Indiana and, uh, Iowa and stuff. So that was that, that was encouraging.

That's kind of cool to see.

[00:28:54] Leah: Yeah. And when I was living in Indiana, there were certain areas that were kind of these fields where they would mow them. And that's kind of where you would walk your dog. I noticed the last time I lived there, they weren't mowing them and they would mow a certain area and then they would allow the wildflowers and you know, the meadows to kind of

flourish. And that's kind of nice. It's pretty. And that's something I do want to do here as well. And, um, I'm trying to do up at our cabin, you know, to, we have an expanse of grass and I'm trying to let part of that go wild. We're getting like Elk kind of nesting overnight in there. I mean, it's like you're attracting more wildlife, which is

so cool I mean you find their poop everywhere.

That was an issue, but you know, it's still it's you know Sharing sharing with the wildlife.

[00:29:42] Tina: Yeah. I was going to say, technically they were there first, so,

[00:29:45] Leah: That is true. That is true

[00:29:48] Tina: so it's good to share.

[00:29:50] Leah: So I think If people want more information on actionable things they can do. we did that interview with Christina The environmental, um, journalist..

And so go check that episode out. We'll put a link for her and get her book. Cause she talks about a lot about this, about, you know, the different areas across the U S and the, not just pesticide exposure, but just overall exposures and health risks.

[00:30:17] Tina: Yes, yeah, I want to make sure that I know we say this in a lot of episodes, but I don't feel like we said this in any recent episode. Um, once you ingest something and you will, because this is the world we live in, you will have chemicals coming in, whether you breathe them in, or they contact your skin or they're on your food or in your food.

there's four routes out the body. So you just have to keep those elimination pathways wide open. And that is. Your sweat, your breath, your urine, and your stool four ways out the body. So keep them all healthy and Regular, right? this might be one of the reasons exercise is really good for us because it increases All of those it increases blood flow, which is it increases our kidneys ability to filter the blood and it keeps you regular You breathe deeper and it makes you sweat You can't hear it too many times.

[00:31:11] Leah: And you're also increasing your muscle mass and lessening your fat mass and fat mass tends to hold onto all of these chemicals.

[00:31:18] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. We didn't even talk about that, but that's one of the reasons. Sometimes when people lose weight really quickly, they don't feel well. and often you're liberating chemical compounds that have been stored in the fat because that is usually where they go is they get stored away in your fat tissue.

so your adipose cells or your fat cells, actually, that's where they're soluble. That's where they get stored. And so as those shrink, You liberate these compounds sometimes. So, so a rapid weight loss can make people feel a little funky sometimes. And I think fasting sometimes has that, you know, when people do extended fasts.

[00:31:52] Leah: There's so much going on when people fast that it's hard to say like, that's what this is from. Um, we're not promoting that people do those detoxes that are all over social media, you know, drinking these crazy smoothies and whatnot. That's not really.

[00:32:07] Tina: No, I think there's a book out there or I don't know if it's a recipe book. I think it's called Everyday Detox. It's a decent book about how your body eliminates chemical compounds. I have it somewhere on my

[00:32:17] Leah: But I just don't want people going out and buying like, you know, detox formula powders, pills, capsules, making like crazy smoothies that people are coming up with on, on the TikTok. Like that's not necessary. drink your filtered water and eat your fiber. Make sure that you're pooping and peeing and, you know, sweat a little.

[00:32:37] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. And if anything, avoidance is first because you're going to get exposed regardless. So avoiding them as much as possible is the number one thing that we can do. And that means taking precautions. I mean, I do think that we, me included, there are times that I should take more precaution than I do.

Right. You should wear a respirator mask when you're using certain paints and that kind of thing. And you think, Oh, it's only gonna take me 10 minutes. And you just quickly do it. I do it if it's exposure for a long time, of course, but there's times that we all do that, right?

[00:33:05] Leah: Yeah, and working in a cancer center in the Midwest and

talking to people who work in agriculture, whether they're farmers or, you know, whatever they're doing, always checking to make sure that they were wearing respirators. Are those provided to you? Yeah, but it's too hot to You know, I heard that, but that was more, you know, the RV industry that, people weren't wearing protective gear. If you need to use. Pesticides or any chemicals, make sure that you are being safe, you know, wearing protective gear for yourself because maybe you're thinking like, well, these small exposures, it's not, it's not going to make or break me.

No, but think about the people who are growing and harvesting this food and have greater exposures and people who live in the areas around these farms. greater exposures. And so that's, that's a big concern, you know, that's because we will get some pushback I know, because there, you know, the thought that these small exposures don't matter.

But over time, it's not just the food that we're eating. It's the air that we're breathing. We talked about microplastics. I mean, so that's what I mean. Like, you're like, you're just constantly, it's like you might try to live as clean and healthy as possible. And you might have some people down the street who are burning their trash.

[00:34:29] Tina: Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is why we control the variables we have control over, but don't sweat the rest of it. try to control your own environment as best you can. So I don't want people to get all super paranoid and start stressing out because then we're going to find out that stress is the new smoking

[00:34:46] Leah: and so, you know, so

[00:34:48] Tina: No, it's a valid point. Totally agree. Yes.

[00:34:52] Leah: You know, it's just it's it's being aware doing what you can to lessen not only your exposure but other people's exposure. If you're like, well, I'm kind of sick of spending every Sunday mowing my lawn, make it a meadow. I know if you live in an HOA that's not going to happen,

[00:35:09] Tina: No.

[00:35:10] Leah: but you know, I don't know what to tell you then.

[00:35:14] Tina: I know. I know. There's true challenges. And this is why I say it's a little bit of a cultural thing. So I'm excited and encouraged when I see these counterculture neighborhoods going and saying, you know what, we're just going to start planning a meadow. And it's okay. We all like our meadow, you know, so like a little more respect for the natural environment that's being kind of adopted out there.

I think, I think that's the direction we're headed in anyways. a lot of what we talked about today, you and I already knew. And so, yeah, it's, there might be a slight underestimation of how kind of negative it is. it's just something that we've lived with for our entire careers at the very least, a knowledge of this.

Pesticide being horrible and possibly carcinogenic, many of them. so yeah, I hope we weren't too negative on this one.

[00:35:59] Leah: I know. On that note, I'm Dr. Leah Sherman

[00:36:02] Tina: And I'm Dr. Tina Kaczor.

[00:36:04] Leah: and this is The Cancer Pod.

[00:36:05] Tina: Until next time.

Thanks for listening to The Cancer Pod. Remember to subscribe, review, and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates. And as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, Dr.

Leah Sherman, and by Dr. Tina Kaczor. Music is by Kevin MacLeod. See you next time.