Natasha Ewa, Psychotherapist and #cancerinsider

[00:00:00] Natasha: PTSD is living in survival mode, For someone, especially if the person is struggling with moderate to severe PTSD, essentially, you were always in some sort of survival mode, whether that's through your sleeping patterns, your nightmares, the spaces that you choose not to go into.

Due to the trauma that you've had. And from my perspective, I don't know that it's any different for the majority of us who have dealt with any type of cancer. You're constantly reminded of it, whether or not it impedes on your ability to function. but you are constantly reminded of it. 

 This is a trigger warning. In this episode, we speak with Natasha Iwa, psychotherapist and cancer insider. We discuss subjects that may be difficult for some to listen to, including PTSD, grief, and death, all from the perspective of wellness. These are all familiar to cancer patients, survivors, and caregivers, but may be a lot to take in.

If you need to take a break, do so, or refer to the timestamps to skip to the next subject. 

[00:01:09] Tina: I'm Dr. Tina Kaczor.

[00:01:11] Leah: And I'm Dr. Leah Sherman

[00:01:12] Tina:. And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care. 

[00:01:17] Leah: But we're not your doctors. 

[00:01:19] Tina: This is for education, entertainment, and informational purposes only. 

[00:01:24] Leah: Do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor. 

[00:01:28] Tina: The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own.

[00:01:34] Leah: Welcome to the Cancer Pod. 

With us today is Natasha Iwa. She is a licensed social worker, psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, and immigration psych evaluator. She's licensed in the states of Virginia, Maryland, and Rhode Island. Natasha obtained her undergraduate bachelor's of science degree in psychobiology at Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, and her master's of social work degree at Norfolk State University in Virginia.

Natasha. Natasha has been practicing for over 10 years, and in 2019, she started I Thrive Therapy and Wellness after completing her treatment for breast cancer. Some of the concerns she addresses with her clients include depression, mood, communication issues, PTSD, racial PTSD, anxiety, loss and bereavement, career choice and changes, anger and stress management.

Welcome Natasha. Yeah. Thank you. Welcome to the show. 

[00:02:48] Natasha: And thank you for having me. 

[00:02:50] Leah: So, um, a couple of the reasons that I really, really wanted to meet with you because we have mostly communicated through Instagram, I've comment on some of your posts and whatnot. But, um, I am really interested in your experience as a licensed social worker, a psychotherapist who was diagnosed with cancer.

You. were not working with cancer patients at that time. 

[00:03:15] Natasha: Not at that time. No, not I had had some experience working I had worked with maybe a couple of children who had had a history of being diagnosed with childhood cancer But as far as it being kind of a part of my niche not at that time 

[00:03:29] Leah: You know being a provider myself who worked in a cancer center and then got this diagnosis of cancer.

Like I feel my perspective was so different from my patient's perspective. Yeah. So, can you talk a little bit about what it was like after your diagnosis? 

[00:03:46] Natasha: Sure. So at the time of my diagnosis, um, Like, as you had mentioned in the bio, I hadn't started my practice at that time. And so for me, the difficult part was I was working with kids.

Um, so youth under the age of 17 at a residential facility, as a therapist. And. My appearance, of course, changed. And so, as we know, with kids, they're very blunt. They're very honest and they observe all things. And so, I, of course, I was aware that, you know, folks would start to pick up on it. Only a couple of individuals were fully aware of what was happening.

And there were 2 instances that will always be with me during that time. So, the first one was I was working with a young kiddo. And she, I think I had only worked with her for like a couple of days at that point. And she was like, I want to show you my stuffed bear. And she said, my bear's name is cancer.

I wasn't sure if I heard correctly. so I asked her again, I said, could you repeat for me what the name of your bear is? And so I, I said to myself, well, maybe she's talking about like. the, the Zodiac sign, right? And so like, maybe my bear is a cancer. And she said, no, my bear's name is cancer.

So, you know, of course I inquisitively asked her kind of what the background was for that. And she said, I don't know. I just kind of woke up last week when I got the bear and I just felt like that was the, that was the right name. I said, well, you know, Does your bear have cancer? So now it's kind of taking it into a little bit of play therapy and trying to get some some background on the inspiration.

I said, well, does your bear have cancer? Do you have a family member who has had cancer? And she said, no, she just felt like it was the most appropriate name. And this was maybe I would say about a week into losing my hair. Um, and then a couple of weeks after that, I had a Colleague who approached me and said, and at that point, like I was wrapping my hair, I had on a hair scarf and things.

And she said that one of her kiddos, a client that she was working with had approached her and said, I've noticed Miss Natasha's hair looks like it's gone. Does she have cancer? And I'll never forget those two, those two moments. Um, at that point, I realized that. I was suppressing my own emotions and my own experience with cancer in order to do the work that I was doing because of how I realized how those two moments actually impacted me.

So they hurt. Those moments hurt. Obviously those kids. They were not being malicious, right, whatsoever, but it hurt, um, and it really drove home that I had cancer and that there were people around me who were noticing it without even knowing me. 

[00:06:24] Leah: And kids are the ones who, kids and cancer patients are the ones who are bold enough 

to say something.

[00:06:30] Natasha: Yes. Yeah. So it really, um, I think in short being diagnosed with cancer while doing the work that I did, I had to compartmentalize. In order to be there for my clients. And I think it wasn't until about 2019, maybe almost 2020. Did I realize that that's what I was doing when I experienced my own first panic attack, which I had never experienced before.

[00:06:56] Tina: And what year were you diagnosed again? 

[00:06:58] Natasha: Um, I was diagnosed, really at the very end, tail end of 2016. It was like two days before new year. Um, so I believe like December 29th, 2016, my husband and I were getting ready to go to New Jersey to celebrate new year when I got the diagnosis. 

[00:07:14] Tina: And it's not polite to ask anyone's age, but we are a podcast  

[00:07:17] Natasha: So like currently how old I am? 

[00:07:20] Tina: Yeah. Well, at time of diagnosis. 

[00:07:22] Natasha: I was 29 at the time. 

[00:07:24] Tina: Very young. 

[00:07:25] Leah: And I know you have a son, a very young son and I'm bad with math and with children's ages. He was not born yet. 

[00:07:36] Natasha: He was not, no.

He'll be three on the 28th of this month. 

[00:07:40] Leah: Okay. 

[00:07:40] Natasha: but yes, at that time I had no children. Okay. 

[00:07:44] Leah: Okay. I believe that I first, you mentioned the head, wrapping, you know, your head in scarves. And I think that's how I first found you really was because I had different patients who they didn't want to wear wigs.

Um, when I went through treatment, I just wore a buff scarf and I tried some, wraps, but then with, seeing patients and then having, um, hot flashes. It was really hard. So I found, I found your Instagram page and I would refer patients to your Instagram page. 

[00:08:18] Natasha: Oh, that warms my heart. Oh my gosh. 

[00:08:20] Leah: And so I kind of have seen your page evolve.

And then I guess that's as you developed your, your practice. 

[00:08:29] Natasha: Correct. Yeah, so I, I came up with the name of the practice on the very last day of my chemo session. and I re I remember throughout treatment, I would always tell myself that, um, and it's actually something that I tattooed on my arm as well.

It's incessantly every morning. If I woke up today, it's another day survived. And so that I kind of shortened that to a day awake as a day survived. And I just want to thrive. Like once this is over, um, I just want to thrive. I just want to go on and I just want to be well, holistically well. And so I kind of.

Put all of that together. And I was just sitting there one day. I said to my husband, that's it. I thrive therapy and wellness. And I was like, I know it's kind of long, but I mean, it really encompasses the journey that I've been on and the journey that I know a lot of others are on or have been on. so it just, for me, it was befitting 

[00:09:19] Leah: another thing that I really like is that you are very Upfront 

[00:09:23] Natasha: with 

[00:09:24] Leah: your experiences, you know, you're not, it's not this sort of toxic positivity kind of, account.

I mean, you're very honest. You're very forward and that's really appreciated. by all of your followers. Some of the things that I think our listeners would want to hear more about, we all know that we're experiencing it and we're not getting a lot, a lot of help from others, is the PTSD that comes with going through, treatment.

Yes. And you've experienced that yourself. 

[00:09:55] Natasha: Mm hmm. 

[00:09:56] Leah: how do people identify that they are experiencing PTSD? 

[00:10:01] Natasha: So I, I refer to it as health related PTSD because of course a person can develop PTSD for a variety of reasons.

Um, I work with a lot of veterans as well who I've diagnosed with PTSD, um, or who, who have come in with that diagnosis. And so health related PTSD, the symptoms. Are very similar or pretty much textbook for the most part, as it would be for other reasons that a person would develop the difference is the experience that you have leading up to it.

Right? And so some of the things that I tell folks to be mindful of, we've got kind of the. Cliche, are you having nightmares? Are you struggling with your sleep hygiene, um, your ability to feel safe in certain spaces, especially spaces that remind you of the trauma that you experienced, um, your ability to communicate not just to others, but actually your internal self, um, your internal locus of control and you know, so on and so forth.

So being able to sit down and first slow down and take some time and say, these are the things that I'm experiencing. But most importantly, Being able to accept that it's connected to having had cancer. That's the part that's really difficult for folks, not even necessarily that they may have PTSD, which of course can be mild.

It can be moderate. It can be severe. It's accepting that it's connected to the fact that I had cancer because of this idea that I shouldn't let cancer ruin me, right? I shouldn't let cancer be the reason I'm alive. I should be, I'm okay. Like I'm physically here. What, what's the problem? And so acceptance of I may be struggling with symptoms of PTSD.

I may be struggling with PTSD due to my bout with cancer. if a person can accept that it's then it's easier to then manage the symptoms that one has and you're less avoidant of them. I 

[00:11:55] Leah: I think it's something that's hard for patients after they complete treatment because we are told. You're alive. 

Put it behind you, you know, the family suddenly shifts and they're like, that never happened kind of a thing. And so as we're in survival mode, once that it's like what, you know, what just happened kind of a thing. 

[00:12:18] Natasha: Yeah, that's, that's really big. And so PTSD is living in survival mode. Right. For someone, especially if the person is struggling with moderate to severe PTSD, essentially, you are always in some sort of survival mode, whether that's through your sleeping patterns, your nightmares, the spaces that you choose not to be in.

To go into due to the trauma that you've had. And from my perspective, I don't know that it's any different for the majority of us who have dealt with any type of cancer. You're constantly reminded of it, whether or not it's, it impedes on your ability to function, but you are constantly reminded of it.

The day that I received my diagnosis, I don't remember the name of the song, but for like four years, I could not listen to that song. I would literally burst into tears anytime. I would never play it, but if I was driving by and someone was playing it or someone else was playing it, I would have to leave that room.

until today, I refuse to play that song because it literally takes me back to the moment that I got those words. I was driving to my appointment, playing that song. And when I got the diagnosis, I sat in my car. When I turned my car on, I was driving. The song started playing. And, I mean that within itself being triggered by a sound, right.

Or being triggered by a scent or being triggered even by weather. Um, the day that I received my diagnosis, it was sunny outside. So for some individuals, you know, they may have lived their entire lives, really enjoying, you know, springtime. And then all of a sudden it's, I know that spring is beautiful and I can appreciate it, but I don't want anything to do with it.

Hmm. 

[00:13:56] Tina: I want to go back to the fact that this happens so early in your life. young people getting diagnosed with cancer is on the rise. We know this for sure for various cancers. It's been going on actually since about 2010, but it got stronger in the teens, um, and colorectal cancer, certainly is the one making the press these days.

But regardless, did you have a family history that you were aware of that would have, tipped you off to be more vigilant earlier in life? Or was this just kind of, The first in the lineage, 

[00:14:47] Natasha: no awareness. None whatsoever. I tend to follow that up with, I was so confident that it would not be cancer because of that lack of awareness.

I just knew there was no way it was going to be cancer. And I don't talk about this often. I've probably only shared it once or twice. I was so confident. My husband and I actually joked about it. That's how confident I was. Um, literally up until the moment I walked into that room. I had a big smile on my face.

I had missed my appointment the day before because I was at work and I wasn't paying attention. You know, they told me I need to come in the next day. I was like, wonderful. Well, stop and get some coffee. I mean, it was just this, I was full of confidence. even up until this day, as far as I know, it does not run in the family.

Um, I did have genetic testing and I tested negative for the BRCA gene. So as far as I know, it does not run in the family. As far as my mother knows and shares, I am the first that she is aware of. but. I always have to follow that up with culturally. There is a huge chance that I'm not the first. because these things are not talked about, coming from a black household, but furthermore, coming from an African household, health related issues are not just shied away from, they're hidden and not until very recently are folks more willing to verbalize that they have experienced something at some point, maybe still not even go into detail.

 And I could be wrong. I feel that I'm not the first, but nobody knows if that's really correct. 

[00:16:22] Tina: Yeah, is interesting how cultures will play in on how people react to it, what they do about it. I had a patient in the past who they were from, I don't remember where, but somewhere in the Middle East.

And they don't even tell the patient they have cancer. The family takes care of it. And the patient trusts that what the family is doing is in their best interest, It was a fascinating experience for me because it was so counter to how we in America delve into every last detail and want to take control and hop in the driver's seat most of the time.

Yeah, ask 

[00:16:53] Natasha: all the questions. Yeah, 

[00:16:55] Tina: really, really, really understand it. And it was 

[00:16:57] Natasha: the 

[00:16:58] Tina: utter opposite. And I had to, you know. I was taken aback a little bit by the whole thing, but, you know, it was their culture and, The patient was clearly part of the whole decision making process. So, 

[00:17:08] Natasha: yeah, it's so different and I'm familiar with how that works in some of the Middle Eastern cultures.

Um, I've worked with a couple of my clients have been from Pakistan that have also dealt with not cancer, but health related issues. And it is very similar to, um, what you've just described. You know, with social media and folks becoming a lot more comfortable sharing their stories. It takes that one person from within your culture to break that for some folks to realize as scary as it may be to share.

It's actually very important. And I remember a couple of years after my diagnosis coming across, I mean, I had a lot of women from like the Caribbean and West Africa who would reach out to me and say, well, how do I tell my own spouse? That I have breast cancer, I have had women ask me, you know, I have cancer and they want to, you know, the, the common phrase I hear is, the doctor is suggesting that I cut off my breasts.

I don't wanna do that because if I do culturally, I'm no longer much of a woman. Um, I've had women who have, act as hard as this is for me to say. I've had women who have reached out and said, my husband told me not to get a mastectomy Because culturally you're seen as less than the woman. Um, even me, I've had, family friends who told me not to keep my head bald to make sure I wear a wig.

And I've I didn't wear a wig one bit, um, during treatment. And you know, I absolutely think it's a beautiful thing if someone chooses to, but I've had folks tell me, you might want to wear a wig. Otherwise people will know that you're sick. so culture absolutely plays a role in how, yes, Someone responds if they're accepting of the fact that they may have PTSD, how they go through treatment as well.

If they're going to ask questions, It affects it tremendously, tremendously. 

[00:19:01] Tina: Yeah, I think the word that we like to use it as an empowerment, like knowledge is power and how do we empower people to have self agency and feel some control your story is an example of how this is so otherworldly to be hit with this diagnosis at 29 years old, I mean, it really is, out of left field, how do we, begin to help people feel more in control of a situation that, really rocks their world and changes their entire perspective of life, their own life and others.

[00:19:32] Natasha: As cliche as I think this answer is, it's education. I've learned both through my own personal experiences and my own clients and, just connecting to other women in the, breast cancer community that when education doesn't exist, Beforehand, when something then occurs the feeling of scare and fear is magnified.

It doesn't mean that you're not going to be afraid of the experience and that it's not going to be difficult, but you tend to have a little bit more of a handle on how you navigate that difficultness when you're educated beforehand. There's beauty in being educated during. As well as being educated after, but when that education happens beforehand, you are more likely to speak up and advocate for yourself.

You are more likely to tell that family member. Well, yeah, I'm bald And still feel a sense of comfort in being able to do that. You are less likely to. not get a bilateral or unilateral mastectomy for fear of how your womanhood will be viewed. I do believe that if education started or starts earlier, it will go a long way.

And my thoughts are, even if we have disorder, doesn't necessarily have to be cancer that typically occurs later in life. We should still be learning about it at a younger age because we are probably going to have family members who experience it so that education that comes beforehand helps you to navigate those moments, even if it's not you.

So I feel like as a society, we tend to wait until something becomes problematic. So we are reactive versus proactive before we start to really educate. Our younger counterparts or children on, just the fact that these things exist and it's a possibility. The argument that I've heard is what we don't want our kids to live in fear.

Completely understandable. but that's where balance comes in. Right. The education system is not just on health alone, but it needs to be a part of it. And if we're educating on nutrition and physical wellness, this is a part of physical wellness. It's knowing how to do a self breast exam. 

[00:21:40] Tina: So what would that look like from a practical point of view?

let's just say your three year old grows up in a perfect society and learns along the way. What would it even look like? How does one even begin to think about integrating that into the larger system? 

[00:21:53] Natasha: So I would suggest, it be integrated right into the curriculum, health, right?

And so, as we've seen over the years, they're taking more and more money out of the school system. And so it's becoming difficult to be able to fund these types of things. but we need to integrate it in a way where it doesn't feel so separate. So it's a part of health class, but it's also a part of science class, right?

I, when psychobiology, we worked on genetics a lot. Cancer never came up, and I don't understand why. Plays a role. We know that when there are genetic mutations, certain individuals are more susceptible. So I don't understand how throughout the entirety of my degree, that never came up. And so we walk around more naive than we probably need to be.

Versus being educated, while also taking the holistic approach of a balance of gratitude and self care so that we are not living in fear. But if we are to be diagnosed with something, you know, the, the advocacy kicks right in. 

This is what I've learned. This is what I'm familiar with. I don't know that much, but I've heard this before.

Can you tell me more about that? Versus. Whoa, like what's going on right now. 

[00:23:04] Tina: Yeah. And I, I see what you're saying. Cause it could be a more holistic approach in general to the education where people learn about diabetes and heart disease and cancer and the entirety of it. 

[00:23:13] Natasha: Yeah, all of it. 

[00:23:14] Tina: So it's not the big C, right?

there is socially and culturally here in the States anyways. And I'm sure it's true of, most Western, societies. it's called the big C, right? For reasons like nobody talks about it until it happens. 

[00:23:27] Natasha: Until it happens. Yeah. 100 percent agreeing. 

[00:23:31] Leah: And I feel adding on that education, starting young is also death.

I feel like that is something, and I experienced it, with the death of both of my parents. Um, I knew nothing. And I had gone through naturopathic medical school and I knew nothing about the dying process. that is something that I know. In the United States, we have completely separated ourselves from, and instead of seeing it as a process of life, it's this thing that is scary and looming, you know, somewhere in all of our futures.

And so I think that, would be a really important thing to include in a wellness program. 

[00:24:17] Natasha: I love that you say it should be, or could be included in a wellness program, because when we hear the word wellness. We don't think death, do we? We think alive, living, living well, but death is inevitable. It happens.

It's all around us. It can be scary. It can be painful. But it's inevitable. And if it's integrated into the umbrella of wellness, I do believe that it changes the narrative around it. I do not feel that it will be less scary for the average person, we will handle it. Differently. you know, our feelings are connected to our behaviors, of course.

 but the more we know, the better prepared we are to manage those feelings when they happen. so, I mean, I absolutely love that. I agree. I think it should be integrated under the umbrella of wellness. Even though it is death. And I had to actually force myself to revisit my ideologies around death.

Cause it was not something that I ever had done. I didn't think about, I didn't think about death. Up until after cancer, I had never even been to a funeral. Not once. So it just was not something I knew had happened. I knew of folks that it happened to. Again, it's inevitable, but it was not something that felt personal.

Um, and I really had to sit down and think about and do some work on why do I think the way that I do about death? Where did that come from? What does it serve me? Does it serve me? What do I, what do I need to change in my thinking patterns? Because as much as I'm alive today, there's going to be a point where I'm not.

Yeah. And as much as I'm alive today, there's going to be a point where for my son, I'm not. And so if I don't address how I think about it, I can't help my son when that time comes. Mm 

[00:26:04] Tina: hmm. It's interesting that you mentioned the. Lack of going to any funerals. Cause I've long thought that one of the reasons we in the States have issues around this death and dying in general is a taboo topic of sorts.

 is we don't have set ceremonies. You know, I grew up Catholic and you had a wake and a funeral and there's a procession and there's the burial and there's, there's a ceremony and I can remember very young going to these 

 and you're around it and it normalizes it to an extent. you see people mourning and it removes the veil a little bit. We don't have communities where we stay and see multiple generations, live and die in the same community.

And so I think that that. Is a consequence. I think our fear of death and dying and our inability to be comfortable with it is a product, of our lack of ceremony around the entire process. 

[00:26:55] Natasha: Yeah, I would. I would totally agree. Um, and just on that a little bit too. Thinking on which I was raised and, I've worked with folks.

Some of my clients are Asian, Filipina. It's, it's so it's, it feels like it's just so similar across the board. This overarching need to hide, to hide what's inevitable and to hide what people already know that one day we're all going to transition. it's, it's, it's heavy. Whereas I believe that it may not need to be as heavy as it is.

Is, it's always going to have some sort of heaviness to it. When you lose someone that's hard, it changes, things for you. Um, yeah, it's layered. It's pretty layered. 

[00:27:37] Tina: Yeah. I think talking about it as our first step, right. And, and bringing it to the table and, being comfortable with it with our loved ones.

I mean, I know I'm comfortable with it, but when the topic comes up, I'll have other relatives say, can you change the subject? This is really depressing. And I'm like, well, you 

know, It needs to be talked about a little bit. All right. 

Normalize. 

[00:27:56] Natasha: Yeah. I'm so glad that you brought that up too. I often hear, you know, I don't want to talk about that because then you'd be inviting it in.

If you talk about death, you're actively inviting it in. And I recall, like, you know, challenging that a little bit once. And I said, well, how can I invite something that's going to happen? Now, if you were to be suggesting that your thoughts are, I'm inviting for it to happen, like tomorrow.

Um, maybe then I can understand a bit of the concern that you have, but you can't invite something that is bound to happen. It's already in. It's already in. Now, how do we experience it when it occurs? Is the question. 

[00:28:32] Tina: Yeah, that's a whole, that'd be a whole podcast onto itself right there. 

[00:28:35] Leah: I wanted to talk about some of the treatment modalities that you use with your clients.

And I'm actually kind of curious as how receptive they are, to things like, I'm just going to start with guided meditation. I know that you use that with clients. I have talked to some patients about meditation for them to explore it. And it's immediately like, no, I won't do that. You know,

[00:29:01] Natasha: Um, so when it comes to guided meditation, I have had that same experience. However, I have found that. Those who have at least gone through cancer, or any like major health, life changing experience, they're more open to it years down the line from their diagnosis. And the reason for that is because guided meditation forces you to slow down.

And when you slow down, what happens with the mind? We start thinking. And when you've been through something traumatic, You don't want to think about that. You want to move on. So things like meditation and yoga, guided meditation can feel invasive, can feel scary, can feel like, why are you trying to take me back there?

You know, kind of thing. And so for those who have been more receptive to that are usually a few years out. from their diagnosis. the other modalities that are, that I frequently use, CBT is very common cognitive behavioral therapy, which is more so to focus on the mindset, how our emotions affect our behaviors, you know, so on and so forth, thinking patterns, being able to reconstruct, which kind of helps with what we often hear, the new normal, if that's what the person wants to explore.

Um, trauma informed care for me is very important. So always having a trauma informed baseline to the work that we do. consistently validating that, yes, you had cancer, but it is your very own personal experience. It's still not that of my next client. And I want you to have, this is your, your world. I don't want you to feel like I'm lumping you in with someone else just because you've both have had breast cancer.

Cause it may have been two different types. You may have had two different types of treatment. And the reality is you're a whole different person. Which means you also experienced it differently. So taking that trauma informed approach, um, and I use a lot of narrative therapy. So I'd say probably 65 to 75 percent of my clientele that have been impacted by cancer or a major health issue, we do a lot of auditory journaling.

And so what that looks like is I give a journal prompt. And I will recommend how long their answer should be. And sometimes I'll say 12 seconds and sometimes I'll say seven minutes. The hard task is they are not to listen to it either until they return for their next session, or I'll task that we're going to put it away for about 30 days and then we're going to listen to it and process it.

 then it kind of segues into a little bit of exposure therapy because it creates this room for us to re expose you back to something that you've been through a time later. And then we can assess how you've dealt with it, and now how you'd like to see yourself deal with it. 

 So including writing, journaling, um, words, essentially, that you reflect back on. 

[00:31:45] Leah: But you specifically have them 

do, like, a recording. 

[00:31:49] Natasha: Sometimes it's written. Yeah, sometimes it's written, depending on the client. Some clients are not fond of writing in journals. they get overwhelmed by it.

and for those, I definitely will introduce them to more of the auditory and then, but for, I'd say for most of my clients, that's a mix of both. 

[00:32:04] Tina: And so when you say you give them a question, is it specifically about the past 

[00:32:10] Natasha: So with their diagnosis or whatever that life changing event was, we're taking a look at their current status, their current mental health status, whether they're experiencing depression, anxiety, um, sleep issues, and then we're looking at the future that they imagined.

for their self if they were not to have been diagnosed and the future they now envision for their self after being diagnosed. Being able to have that comparison also can encourage acceptance. So I can't undo the fact that I had cancer. It's now my experience and I have to find a way gradually, of course, to mourn where I thought I'd be.

And accept where I currently am. 

[00:32:52] Tina: I like that. 

[00:32:53] Leah: I'm like, yeah, my mind is like processing all of that. It's, um, 

[00:32:59] Natasha: And it can, it can get pretty 

heavy. 

[00:33:01] Leah: Yeah, no, I mean, that really is, you know, it's like, Looking at the two possible paths, in the same picture, that's, That is pretty, um, intense. 

[00:33:11] Natasha: One of the other things, too, if it's okay for me to add that I incorporate into that is, grief. So grief techniques, grief counseling techniques, where, so it would be associated with that. Grieving the future you believe that you would have. and this is not to say that, um, you know, a person or an individual can not have what they planned to have.

It means that you are going to experience the process getting there differently because of having had cancer. Because now your perspective is different. Your viewpoint on life is different. Your lens is different, right? I like to say sometimes our lens is clearer. Sometimes it gets foggy because of having had cancer.

And because of that, the process to meeting whatever those life goals will look and feel different. It doesn't mean that your goals are different. So being able to grieve that, but also, going back to death and dying, say 10 times out of 10, I do bring that up. Um, some people are resistant to that, of course, but I bring it up.

And the reason I do is I say, because I can imagine that when you heard those words, you thought death. Now, you may not have thought that you weren't going to make it, but I can imagine for even if it was just two seconds, you considered the possibility of death. So we need to face that. We need to make that real.

We need to engage in some sort of acceptance because now we're still alive. We're still here. But death. Will still happen, which means now that you've survived not passing will also change how you survive the rest of the time before we actually do. 

[00:34:46] Tina: I like this because it just frames it in such a gentle but realistic way.

[00:34:51] Natasha: And that's my goal. Yeah. 

[00:34:53] Tina: Yeah. So in your current practice, I thrive therapy and wellness. what percentage? of patients or clients, I should say, right? do you have that are dealing with cancer on some level? Either it's a loved one or someone who has had it or is going through it. 

[00:35:08] Natasha: So cancer specifically, I'd probably say about 6%.

Um, health related issues, Probably. And to include myself as well as my other therapists within the practice, probably 20 percent chronic illness of some sort. 

[00:35:23] Tina: Okay. 

[00:35:23] Natasha: Some have had a history of childhood cancer, but are currently dealing with other chronic health issues. Some are in the midst of trying to figure out what is going on with me.

but specifically having had cancer, um, I'd say about maybe six to 8%. 

[00:35:39] Tina: And you're in the Virginia? Yes. 

[00:35:41] Natasha: Hampton Roads area of Virginia. Yeah. 

[00:35:44] Leah: Is there anything that you want to add or, promote for yourself that you want to share with our audience before we go? 

[00:35:53] Natasha: Um, yes, I have written a book. it is, uh, so I've had a couple of folks ask me like where they can find it.

. And I only sell it, directly. So the person would have to reach out to me. there's a PayPal system and everything like that, and they can get the copy. I've sold about 120 copies. and the book essentially is every journal entry I wrote from the day that I was diagnosed for almost four years.

So it is very raw, very real, very me. Um, and it took, I'd say almost two years to get to a place of comfort to say, I'm, I'm ready to put this out there. Some pages are the F word, just one word. Some pages are, you know, me talking about a dream that I had. I used to have several dreams of me dying during cancer, after cancer.

Um, I'm talking about appointments with doctors, questions I have, randomly talking about the trees in my backyard. Um, journal entries.

[00:36:59] Leah: That's, that's amazing. That is amazing that, you have that record for yourself, but also to share with others. Um, so how would someone contact you if they were interested in ? Buying a book. 

[00:37:13] Natasha: So they can contact me through my Gmail, which is Zanatasha, Z A N A T A S H A 5 6, um, at gmail.

com. and I'm happy to also share my phone number, which is 401 359 1739. If they're interested or, you know, just seeking some sort of guidance, um, folks will reach out to me also on psychology today. And, um, through, you know, my practices website, which is ittandwellness. com. some of, some of the clients that I work with, it's their parents who have reached out and said, I see that you've had cancer before.

My adult child, you know, has had cancer and I'm, I'm worried. And I think, you know, you might be a good fit. Um, so that happens a lot through the website. 

[00:38:04] Leah: So do you only see clients from Virginia, Maryland, or Rhode Island? Yes. 

[00:38:10] Natasha: And that's because those are the three states that I'm licensed in. 

[00:38:13] Leah: Okay. Okay. So to our listeners who are in other states, 

[00:38:17] Natasha: sorry, 

[00:38:18] Leah: well, Natasha, it has been wonderful speaking with you and, um, learning about your story and.

how you work with your clients. Um, there's so much more that I want to know and we just don't have the time right now, but we'd love to have you back. 

[00:38:35] Natasha: I'd love to be back. I think that would be great. Thank you for having me. Both of you. 

[00:38:40] Leah: Thanks for listening to The Cancer Pod. Remember to subscribe, review, and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on social media for updates. And as always, this is not medical advice. These are our opinions. Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan. The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, Dr.

Leah Sherman, and by Dr. Tina Kaczor. Music is by Kevin MacLeod. See you next time.