April 23, 2025

Faking Cancer: Amanda, Belle, and Elisabeth...the Fakers

Faking Cancer: Amanda, Belle, and Elisabeth...the Fakers
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Season 4

In this episode, Dr. Tina Kaczor and Dr. Leah Sherman discuss notorious cancer fakers Belle Gibson(Apple Cider Vinegar), Amanda Riley(Scamanda), and Elizabeth Finch (Anatomy of Lies). Each one created elaborate schemes that often duped even their loved ones. The hosts examine the psychological aspects behind such behavior, revealing how these individuals exploited vulnerable people's emotions and trust. They also discuss distinguishing between factual integrative cancer care (hello! that's us!) and harmful misinformation (like the fakers here, for example). The episode emphasizes the need for critical evaluation of health claims, especially in the age of social media.

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00:00 - Excerpt from episode

03:09 - Join our community!

04:34 - Intro to this episode

10:36 - Belle Gibson's famous fictions (Apple Cider Vinegar)

17:49 - Elisabeth Finch's tall tales (Anatomy of Lies)

21:41 - Amanda Riley's devilish deceptions (Scamanda)

31:38 - How'd they do it?!

38:00 - Wrap up

WEBVTT

00:00:00.270 --> 00:00:07.235
Leah, I am incredulous about these fakers and frauds in cancer care.

00:00:07.384 --> 00:00:08.255
Like that.

00:00:08.255 --> 00:00:13.070
They would even go there and pretend to have cancer is mind blowing.

00:00:14.070 --> 00:00:23.800
But the lengths that they go through, like pretending to have a port and pretending to be getting, you know, like posting pictures getting infusions, like it's crazy.

00:00:23.829 --> 00:00:24.760
Shaving their heads.

00:00:25.225 --> 00:00:41.527
Yeah, one of them, Scamanda, Amanda, when they ask her, good friend when did you finally realize that she was faking, her answer was not until she pleaded guilty in court, because of pictures of her getting IVs and nurses in the background and

00:00:41.917 --> 00:00:44.887
Oh, and like friends and family would take them to treatment.

00:00:44.887 --> 00:00:46.597
I mean, sometimes they wouldn't let them in.

00:00:46.783 --> 00:00:50.173
while they were getting treatment, they just like drop'em off at the, at the hospital.

00:00:50.173 --> 00:00:51.103
But still, no, it just,

00:00:51.508 --> 00:00:52.887
it's diabolical.

00:00:53.036 --> 00:00:54.085
absolutely.

00:00:54.206 --> 00:01:07.415
And so what we did, dear listener, is we looked into, we watched the stories of three pretty famous cancer fakers, cancer frauds,

00:01:08.016 --> 00:01:08.615
infamous,

00:01:08.646 --> 00:01:09.215
infamous.

00:01:09.876 --> 00:01:10.506
Much better.

00:01:10.596 --> 00:01:11.195
Yes.

00:01:11.346 --> 00:01:13.566
So they're known in, in the cancer world.

00:01:13.566 --> 00:01:19.385
And I mean, every time I would think like, oh my God, this is like so surprising.

00:01:19.385 --> 00:01:20.316
This is so shocking.

00:01:20.376 --> 00:01:24.016
Then I'd watch another story and I was like, how did, what the heck?

00:01:24.061 --> 00:01:26.251
it just like kept like, it's crazy.

00:01:26.402 --> 00:01:32.652
And, and there are more people than just the three that we're talking about.

00:01:32.682 --> 00:01:37.932
Um, we're gonna talk about Belle Gibson, Amanda Riley, and Elizabeth Finch.

00:01:38.932 --> 00:01:42.441
Apple Cider Vinegar, Scamanda, and Anatomy of Lies, in that order,

00:01:42.951 --> 00:01:43.432
Yeah.

00:01:43.941 --> 00:01:45.141
I'm gonna say something right up front.

00:01:45.412 --> 00:01:49.221
apple cider vinegar, I couldn't even get through the first episode.

00:01:49.641 --> 00:01:51.531
oh, I didn't either.

00:01:51.531 --> 00:01:55.731
Um, but we both watched the 60 Minutes Australia interview with her, so.

00:01:56.572 --> 00:01:59.272
Yes, and I watched an actual documentary that was separate.

00:01:59.841 --> 00:02:03.441
'cause apple cider vinegar is a docudrama at best.

00:02:03.802 --> 00:02:04.281
Right.

00:02:04.281 --> 00:02:11.062
Um, but it's, it's not even, I mean, it, it's not even a docu, I mean, it's, it's a fictional, it's, yeah, it's a fictional account because.

00:02:11.722 --> 00:02:19.312
Yeah, I started looking into some of the characters and I realized that they were kind of amalgams that there's this one character Mila, and I wanted to know more about her.

00:02:19.312 --> 00:02:20.361
And she was, yeah.

00:02:20.451 --> 00:02:28.051
So anyways, so yeah, we did not actually finish apple cider vinegar, but it makes sense because we were just kind of doing more of the documentary stuff.

00:02:28.187 --> 00:02:36.067
Yeah, I, when I realized it was fictional, I didn't wanna confuse my brain with fictional accounts and actual facts.

00:02:36.187 --> 00:02:36.806
Yeah, exactly..

00:02:36.806 --> 00:02:38.417
So I just put it aside.

00:02:38.646 --> 00:02:38.977
me too.

00:02:39.037 --> 00:02:39.336
Me too.

00:02:39.336 --> 00:02:44.227
And I probably will go back and watch it, but I didn't wanna confuse reality with,

00:02:44.616 --> 00:02:45.247
Oh, that's funny.

00:02:45.426 --> 00:02:46.266
We did the same thing.

00:02:46.266 --> 00:02:47.046
We both did it for the same

00:02:47.287 --> 00:02:53.137
yeah, no, I just didn't want to onfuse reality with fiction, but the whole thing is like fictitious.

00:02:54.163 --> 00:02:56.954
You would think that all of it is fiction, but it actually happened.

00:02:56.984 --> 00:03:02.424
All these people did just outrageously devious, fraudulent.

00:03:03.204 --> 00:03:06.683
Fake cancers for their own benefit.

00:03:07.253 --> 00:03:16.003
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00:03:16.287 --> 00:03:22.526
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With that, let's get started

00:03:59.594 --> 00:04:00.074
I'm Dr.

00:04:00.074 --> 00:04:03.444
Tina Kaczor, and as Leia likes to say, I'm the science y one.

00:04:03.585 --> 00:04:04.224
And I'm Dr.

00:04:04.224 --> 00:04:06.694
Leah Sherman, and I'm the cancer insider.

00:04:07.254 --> 00:04:11.115
And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care.

00:04:11.344 --> 00:04:13.215
But we're not your doctors.

00:04:13.495 --> 00:04:17.475
This is for education, entertainment, and informational purposes only.

00:04:17.735 --> 00:04:22.064
Do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor.

00:04:22.214 --> 00:04:27.995
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own.

00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:29.930
Welcome to the Cancer Pod.

00:04:36.324 --> 00:04:41.004
okay, first of all, just faking cancer in general is kind of,

00:04:41.588 --> 00:04:42.613
A symptom of a mental illness.

00:04:43.434 --> 00:04:43.944
yeah.

00:04:43.944 --> 00:04:54.084
And so one of the things that they talked about in, uh, I think a few of the, the things that we watched was, factitious disorder, which is the new name for, um, Munchhausen.

00:04:54.894 --> 00:04:55.644
Yes.

00:04:55.809 --> 00:04:56.709
Munchausen syndrome.

00:04:56.709 --> 00:05:02.488
And now there's something known as Munchausen by internet, which I'm like,

00:05:03.178 --> 00:05:03.569
Yes.

00:05:03.569 --> 00:05:05.608
'cause there's always been Munchausen by proxy

00:05:05.788 --> 00:05:11.735
which is when like a parent will do things to cause like a child or a spouse, you know,

00:05:11.786 --> 00:05:12.475
to be sick.

00:05:12.880 --> 00:05:24.341
Where one person does that to the other, and there's always been Munchausen where a person fakes their own illness, but now there's Munchausen by internet'cause you're bringing Instagram and everything else into it.

00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:27.370
Yeah, let me just, I'm gonna read off Mayo Clinic's website.

00:05:27.521 --> 00:05:30.161
This link that you gave me actually in our notes.

00:05:30.850 --> 00:05:36.591
The symptoms of fictitious disorder involve people trying to look ill, making themselves ill or hurting themselves.

00:05:36.831 --> 00:05:44.966
May also fake symptoms, make symptoms seem worse than they are, or pretend they can't do certain things because of their symptoms, so they can deceive others.

00:05:45.355 --> 00:05:47.755
People with a condition work hard to hide their lies.

00:05:48.055 --> 00:05:52.076
It may be hard to know that their symptoms are part of a serious mental health condition.

00:05:52.315 --> 00:05:59.636
People with this disorder continue with the lies even without any benefit or reward, or when faced with evidence that it doesn't support their claims.

00:06:00.415 --> 00:06:00.865
Wow.

00:06:01.346 --> 00:06:02.456
So it's a mental disorder.

00:06:02.754 --> 00:06:03.353
Yes.

00:06:03.413 --> 00:06:11.244
And I guess on some of the, the things that we watched, they were kind of asking people, you know, like, why would, why would this happen?

00:06:11.244 --> 00:06:12.684
Why would you do this?

00:06:13.134 --> 00:06:18.093
And, you know, there's some thought that it might be due to a history of neglect.

00:06:18.483 --> 00:06:19.173
Hmm.

00:06:19.444 --> 00:06:19.834
Okay.

00:06:20.163 --> 00:06:20.824
You know what?

00:06:20.824 --> 00:06:26.894
I didn't look into anything that was remotely, um, empathetic towards these characters.

00:06:26.894 --> 00:06:33.043
I'll admit, I do realize it's a mental disorder, and that's probably as far as I need to go in my mind.

00:06:33.043 --> 00:06:35.504
Like, okay, well there's reasons for that.

00:06:36.014 --> 00:06:38.504
So I'm a little unforgiving because it's so hideous.

00:06:38.533 --> 00:06:39.163
Their crimes.

00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.411
I'm just curious as to like, how does a person become.

00:06:43.815 --> 00:06:44.295
Yeah.

00:06:44.805 --> 00:06:58.605
Like, I mean, just faking, you know, there's always like a hypochondriac, someone who thinks every, you know, every little symptom they're having is, a much bigger, um, illness or whatever, or, you know, every sniffle sneeze is something.

00:06:58.869 --> 00:07:00.848
but yeah, this is like next level.

00:07:00.848 --> 00:07:01.598
This is just.

00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:06.519
It's next level because it's not just deception, it's exploitation.

00:07:07.088 --> 00:07:17.088
So now they each, in, each of these in some way, they're exploiting the empathy they get from other people for either professional or monetary gain.

00:07:17.524 --> 00:07:17.884
Right.

00:07:17.884 --> 00:07:24.713
And that's, that's what I was gonna say next, is that two of them at least, were making money from.

00:07:24.896 --> 00:07:26.305
Like directly making money.

00:07:26.305 --> 00:07:34.555
I mean, I think Elizabeth Finch was also making money, but that was through her getting employment because of what she was saying was going on.

00:07:35.055 --> 00:07:41.615
Elizabeth Finch, who was an acclaimed writer for Grey's Anatomy, right?

00:07:41.975 --> 00:07:42.636
She wrote.

00:07:43.011 --> 00:07:44.480
Award-winning episodes.

00:07:44.841 --> 00:07:46.490
That one blew my mind.

00:07:46.850 --> 00:07:52.670
Well, and before she wrote for Grey's Anatomy, she wrote For True Blood, which was like one of my favorite series.

00:07:52.821 --> 00:07:53.480
Oh, really?

00:07:53.810 --> 00:07:58.911
And then she wrote for Vampire Diaries, which I never watch, but um, yeah, the whole Grey's Anatomy thing.

00:07:58.911 --> 00:08:01.461
Well, because hers was like beyond cancer.

00:08:01.461 --> 00:08:09.494
Like she did claim that she was diagnosed in like 2012 with a, chondro sarcoma, which is.

00:08:09.843 --> 00:08:13.803
Unusual for someone of her age to be diagnosed with that.

00:08:13.803 --> 00:08:19.093
And I couldn't figure out, Like she had, she claimed it was in her leg, but then it was also in her spine.

00:08:19.934 --> 00:08:26.158
It was, it was a little hard to fall, like for me, it was hard to follow exactly like what her diagnosis was.

00:08:26.728 --> 00:08:29.007
Um, but she went beyond the cancer diagnosis.

00:08:29.007 --> 00:08:36.551
Like she, she faked, you know, she had she had pictures of like something covering her port, you know, she would wear a scarf on her head.

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She would go to these writer's meetings'cause she was you know, a writer on this TV show and she'd leave to, to get sick.

00:08:45.378 --> 00:08:50.937
She'd, I mean it just like that in itself was like crazy that she was faking all that.

00:08:51.312 --> 00:08:57.985
She also flew to was it Mayo or something and had someone go with her and drop her off she would go in and then come back out.

00:08:57.985 --> 00:09:00.326
Like she had her friend wait in the parking lot.

00:09:00.326 --> 00:09:00.686
I don't know.

00:09:00.701 --> 00:09:01.240
Yes.

00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:02.201
Yes she did.

00:09:02.201 --> 00:09:12.941
She had a friend from way back from Kansas or something, go with her to the Mayo Clinic, but she insisted she not come in and when she did come in,'cause her friend's like, well, I can't sit here on the parking garage all day.

00:09:13.301 --> 00:09:14.740
She kind of wandered in to be.

00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:21.760
A good friend and go support her, and she got livid and she basically ripped her a new one and then she's like, okay, okay.

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I won't come in

00:09:22.380 --> 00:09:25.591
Yeah, it, but just like thinking that was faking it.

00:09:25.681 --> 00:09:26.941
But she also faked other things.

00:09:26.941 --> 00:09:34.410
Like she would take aspects of other people's lives and then adopt them and then turn those into like episodes.

00:09:34.410 --> 00:09:34.471
Yeah.

00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:44.441
Episode of Grey's Anatomy based on a conversation, a private conversation with someone who thought she was, you know, confiding in a good friend oh, that's craziness.

00:09:44.441 --> 00:09:45.071
Crazy.

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I.

00:09:45.385 --> 00:09:50.515
hers was like, I mean, they're all next level, but hers was like beyond cancer.

00:09:50.515 --> 00:09:51.775
Like she had the cancer.

00:09:51.836 --> 00:09:56.365
It was her like backstory and then she just kept going from there.

00:09:56.811 --> 00:10:03.686
Yeah, the cancer diagnosis was her way to manipulate people and to get them to look the other way and give her a lot of grace.

00:10:03.716 --> 00:10:04.015
Right?

00:10:04.015 --> 00:10:04.885
Like, oh, I'm sick.

00:10:04.946 --> 00:10:05.995
Oh, I have to go away.

00:10:06.025 --> 00:10:08.096
Oh, and even the one whose story she.

00:10:08.966 --> 00:10:15.535
Basically used to create an award-winning episode based on this woman's tragic events in her own life.

00:10:16.105 --> 00:10:26.318
Even then, that person was giving her some grace because she's like, you know this poor person who's going through treatment and is always sick, and it was just a way to manipulate people.

00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:26.999
Yeah.

00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:27.908
Yeah.

00:10:28.269 --> 00:10:29.609
That's why I call it diabolical.

00:10:29.668 --> 00:10:32.879
There, every one of them exploited people's emotions.

00:10:33.208 --> 00:10:34.558
Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:34.609 --> 00:10:37.673
well, okay, so let's, let's go back to, let's go back to the beginning.

00:10:37.673 --> 00:10:38.993
And the beginning isn't really the beginning.

00:10:38.993 --> 00:10:47.578
'cause I'm sure there were people who faked cancer before then, but the one who really became renowned was Belle Gibson.

00:10:47.609 --> 00:10:48.538
Belle Gibson.

00:10:48.698 --> 00:10:49.099
Yeah.

00:10:49.428 --> 00:10:51.769
And so, you know, and.

00:10:52.769 --> 00:11:00.918
With all of these, I start to wonder when they talk about like, their cancer spreading, I'm like, like, like, is that how this cancer works?

00:11:00.918 --> 00:11:01.158
Like,

00:11:01.448 --> 00:11:01.899
What do you mean

00:11:02.255 --> 00:11:03.696
well, like, like they, I don't know.

00:11:03.696 --> 00:11:05.466
I, okay, so let's start with Belle Gibson.

00:11:05.466 --> 00:11:09.005
What, what her cancer was, what was her, uh,

00:11:09.485 --> 00:11:10.056
brain?

00:11:10.416 --> 00:11:11.946
yeah, like a glioblastoma or

00:11:12.275 --> 00:11:12.696
Yes.

00:11:13.115 --> 00:11:14.346
She claimed to have a brain tumor.

00:11:15.291 --> 00:11:19.610
And she claimed to have refused the conventional treatment'cause it made her too sick.

00:11:19.610 --> 00:11:24.711
So she turned to juicing and diet and lifestyle to cure herself.

00:11:24.951 --> 00:11:25.760
That was her claim.

00:11:26.135 --> 00:11:29.556
Right, because she was given initially like four months to live.

00:11:29.780 --> 00:11:30.591
That was her claim.

00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:31.071
Yes.

00:11:31.086 --> 00:11:31.716
That was her claim.

00:11:31.796 --> 00:11:32.635
None of this is true.

00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:33.461
No, no.

00:11:33.961 --> 00:11:34.750
Let's remember this.

00:11:34.780 --> 00:11:36.431
The whole episode was on fakes and frauds.

00:11:36.431 --> 00:11:39.701
So anything we say about these people is what they, what they said.

00:11:39.821 --> 00:11:40.120
Right.

00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:48.821
And I, I think a lot of our listeners, or you know, a fair number of our listeners have probably watched Apple cider vinegar just because it is such an intriguing story.

00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:53.380
Um, okay, so this is the thing where I thought it was.

00:11:54.380 --> 00:12:07.280
A little off is that apparently in a 2014 Instagram post, um, Belle had said that her cancer spread to her brain, cancer spread to her blood, spleen, brain uterus, and liver.

00:12:07.821 --> 00:12:12.711
Yes, this is Anyone within oncology would recognize that as, huh?

00:12:13.115 --> 00:12:13.605
Exactly.

00:12:14.166 --> 00:12:19.066
But a lot of time people misunderstand what's going on in their own body or they hear it differently.

00:12:19.066 --> 00:12:28.546
And so I'll be honest, I probably, if someone said that to me, I'd probably think to myself, oh, she must have had some kind of metastatic cancer to her brain in the first place.

00:12:28.546 --> 00:12:34.716
She probably started with another type of cancer that had spread to her brain in the first, it wasn't glioblastoma, which would explain.

00:12:35.436 --> 00:12:36.936
You know how it would spread.

00:12:36.966 --> 00:12:39.785
'cause glioblastoma doesn't usually leave the brain.

00:12:39.816 --> 00:12:42.666
I mean, it would be a very, very rare case,

00:12:42.785 --> 00:12:43.235
Right.

00:12:43.566 --> 00:12:43.895
Yeah.

00:12:43.895 --> 00:12:45.125
So, so, yeah.

00:12:45.125 --> 00:12:48.755
But I, but I found that with each one of them, like

00:12:49.115 --> 00:12:49.806
red flags.

00:12:50.046 --> 00:12:51.216
little red flags.

00:12:51.275 --> 00:12:51.816
Yeah.

00:12:51.846 --> 00:12:52.385
Which,

00:12:52.716 --> 00:12:55.745
But you know, the thing about red flags is that they're so easy to see in retrospect, aren't they?

00:12:56.495 --> 00:13:01.265
But what I don't understand with Val Gibson, I mean she really marketed herself.

00:13:01.296 --> 00:13:10.145
Like she came out with a book, an app, um, she was awarded from Cosmopolitan Magazine, like some award,

00:13:10.475 --> 00:13:10.985
Yeah.

00:13:11.145 --> 00:13:13.326
she was on all the shows

00:13:13.475 --> 00:13:13.716
Yeah.

00:13:13.716 --> 00:13:15.306
Talk about all in on a lie.

00:13:15.725 --> 00:13:16.296
Wow.

00:13:16.535 --> 00:13:18.635
in a lie and like really like.

00:13:19.235 --> 00:13:25.316
I think someone had uh, pointed out in something I was watching about her that she really knew how to market herself.

00:13:25.451 --> 00:13:26.410
Well, yeah.

00:13:26.410 --> 00:13:37.360
And that app on Apple, I didn't realize this, but Apple said, we're gonna make your app the first Innate health app on our new watch.

00:13:37.691 --> 00:13:43.630
And so she, she was like really, really prominent, like crazy prominent.

00:13:43.841 --> 00:13:44.260
Oh yeah.

00:13:44.620 --> 00:13:49.421
I think over a million followers, 2.3 million followers or something ridiculous on Instagram.

00:13:49.421 --> 00:13:51.160
I don't remember crazy

00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:51.671
stuff.

00:13:52.030 --> 00:13:55.480
And this is like, you know, like early Instagram, early-ish, so.

00:13:55.691 --> 00:13:58.150
Yes, this was incredible.

00:13:58.150 --> 00:14:03.725
You know, there's a Seinfeld episode where, um, Jerry Seinfeld's trying to figure out how to, how to lie.

00:14:04.061 --> 00:14:05.230
He can't lie very well.

00:14:05.740 --> 00:14:10.091
George Costanza, his best friend, for those who didn't watch the show, is a very good liar.

00:14:10.211 --> 00:14:11.686
And he's trying to, he's like, how do you do it?

00:14:11.686 --> 00:14:12.041
How do you do it?

00:14:12.041 --> 00:14:13.541
He's like, I can't impart this.

00:14:13.541 --> 00:14:15.431
It's just, you're either good editor or you're not.

00:14:15.461 --> 00:14:22.091
And then just as he's leaving the diner, he turns around and he says, remember Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it.

00:14:22.660 --> 00:14:23.201
That's it.

00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:25.331
That's like all these people I think are delusional.

00:14:25.451 --> 00:14:28.541
I think they believe in some way, shape, or form in their brains.

00:14:28.541 --> 00:14:31.780
They believe what they're saying, which allows them to continue the deception.

00:14:32.219 --> 00:14:43.808
watching that 60 minutes interview with Bell Gibson, like, she would not admit, she was like so in it, she was not going to say Yes, I lied.

00:14:43.808 --> 00:14:43.839
I.

00:14:44.828 --> 00:14:53.451
No, and I, I came across some, I don't know, YouTube thing of CIA or FBI guy saying how to, how to see a sociopath.

00:14:53.780 --> 00:14:58.370
And it had to do with people not having lines on their face because normal people have expressions.

00:14:58.941 --> 00:15:01.160
And I kept thinking about it in that 60 minutes interview.

00:15:01.160 --> 00:15:02.120
I was like, look at her face.

00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:03.441
She doesn't have a line on it.

00:15:03.441 --> 00:15:04.821
Like there's nothing on her forehead.

00:15:04.850 --> 00:15:07.671
I know she's 20 something years old in the video, so there's that.

00:15:08.030 --> 00:15:12.620
But even 20 somethings have something you can see that they have had, they've had expressions on their face before.

00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:15.980
She looked like she looked like porcelain, you know, her skin.

00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:17.091
It was incredible.

00:15:17.510 --> 00:15:17.811
So,

00:15:17.946 --> 00:15:20.105
that's'cause she was following everything in her book, I'm

00:15:20.541 --> 00:15:21.051
oh, right.

00:15:21.051 --> 00:15:21.620
That's right.

00:15:21.650 --> 00:15:29.091
she claimed to cure her own cancer with, she claimed she used Gersen therapy, natural medicine and whole food.

00:15:30.081 --> 00:15:35.280
And so her book was The Whole Pantry, which was all these recipes on, on cooking with Whole Foods.

00:15:35.686 --> 00:15:37.155
Yeah, and I wanna say, you know.

00:15:37.966 --> 00:15:42.375
It's unfortunate that these things happen and I, I probably won't, I dunno if I'll ever watch apple cider vinegar.

00:15:42.375 --> 00:15:44.806
It was really hard for me just to watch half the first episode.

00:15:44.806 --> 00:15:54.419
But, if I ever do, it's, it's kind of a black eye on the entire wellness industry to have these people out there making up stuff.

00:15:54.659 --> 00:15:55.049
Right.

00:15:55.380 --> 00:15:56.971
Or even an integrative oncology.

00:15:57.030 --> 00:16:02.160
I mean,'cause there's plenty of evidence-based integrative oncology that people should institute for their own wellbeing.

00:16:02.461 --> 00:16:06.640
But it's hard because people kind of think they have to go all in one side or the other.

00:16:06.640 --> 00:16:09.341
Instead of saying, okay, wait, what parts of this makes sense?

00:16:09.520 --> 00:16:10.541
What parts are evidenced?

00:16:10.541 --> 00:16:14.903
How do I, you know, keep my immune system as, healthy as possible?

00:16:15.168 --> 00:16:17.087
What diet and lifestyle actually makes sense?

00:16:17.477 --> 00:16:17.957
So.

00:16:18.528 --> 00:16:21.168
I just don't want people to think that everything is a bunch of bunk.

00:16:21.197 --> 00:16:24.018
There is plenty of things that people can do that are helpful.

00:16:24.408 --> 00:16:24.738
Right.

00:16:24.798 --> 00:16:30.857
But I do think that especially with TikTok and Instagram reels and all of that, you know.

00:16:31.398 --> 00:16:39.534
With the popularity of social media, I mean, the whole wellness industry, it's, it's hard for people to know what's for real, what isn't.

00:16:39.865 --> 00:16:44.634
You know, there are people who are these fruitarians, you know, they claim to just eat like giant bowls of fruit.

00:16:44.634 --> 00:16:50.195
I think one of the influencers who, her big thing was that she was a fruitarian.

00:16:50.794 --> 00:16:51.904
She died recently.

00:16:51.904 --> 00:16:56.195
Like, I mean, they're just, anyone can claim to.

00:16:56.750 --> 00:16:58.429
Be an expert, you know?

00:16:58.429 --> 00:17:09.583
And, and there are people who have had cancer, who truly had cancer, who then go into the wellness, industry, hoping to help others, but maybe don't have the training.

00:17:09.583 --> 00:17:12.462
So they're just like, well, this worked for me, so it's gonna work for you.

00:17:12.942 --> 00:17:15.103
but not having the science behind it.

00:17:15.163 --> 00:17:22.809
So, I mean, it's just, it's, it's really hard because I think for like the average person to know.

00:17:23.329 --> 00:17:24.890
Is this legit or not?

00:17:25.009 --> 00:17:41.853
And then, you know, like as, as cancer people, like we were empathetic to someone who's going through what we went through, you know, and when they're just posting their lives and, you know, you just become so, engrossed and like, what's going on.

00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:47.130
because you can relate to, parts of it and then it just turns out to be a lie.

00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.809
Like, I still wanna know, like.

00:17:49.275 --> 00:17:49.605
Okay.

00:17:49.605 --> 00:17:58.181
So, Elizabeth Finch, her wife, who was a nurse, realized that these things were fake.

00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:08.270
I mean, besides the fact that like her life was being stolen and put on, on tv, but she realized that fiche, as they call her, didn't have a port scar

00:18:08.451 --> 00:18:08.961
Yes.

00:18:08.961 --> 00:18:10.131
And as a nurse,

00:18:10.191 --> 00:18:11.030
as a nurse.

00:18:11.030 --> 00:18:12.260
Like, I mean.

00:18:12.861 --> 00:18:14.391
she finally realized

00:18:14.465 --> 00:18:28.965
She finally realized,'cause she saw pictures of, you know, bandages over a port, which in itself I thought was kind of weird because you get a bandage over your port when it's first placed and then, or this is my experience.

00:18:28.965 --> 00:18:35.135
And then after that, you just get, um, like a bandaid, like after your port's accessed, you just get a bandaid.

00:18:35.135 --> 00:18:37.625
You don't get like some giant thing covering it.

00:18:37.955 --> 00:18:38.526
that's like.

00:18:38.885 --> 00:18:40.806
You know, gauze or whatever.

00:18:41.455 --> 00:18:43.286
you get those, what, I forgot what they're called.

00:18:43.286 --> 00:18:44.665
The, is it Tega germs?

00:18:44.701 --> 00:18:45.631
Yeah, like a Tegaderm.

00:18:45.836 --> 00:18:46.076
yeah.

00:18:46.076 --> 00:18:48.415
You can get that, but you still see it, you know?

00:18:48.625 --> 00:18:56.036
So, so that in itself was like, that's how she, I mean, she realized like, oh my God, she doesn't, she had a port, but she doesn't have a scar.

00:18:56.296 --> 00:19:05.175
and then she looked back on her postings and social history and was like putting dates together where fin, she said one thing, she was supposed to be in one place and she was in another.

00:19:05.296 --> 00:19:06.736
And that wasn't even cancer related,

00:19:06.786 --> 00:19:11.605
All I could think when her wife, who is a nurse, didn't.

00:19:12.131 --> 00:19:13.540
Put all the pieces together.

00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:22.611
All I could think to myself is how love is blind, how, how much there is a suspension of disbelief for that whole thing to happen.

00:19:23.451 --> 00:19:27.790
Yeah, but she, she also met her wife during a very like.

00:19:27.869 --> 00:19:30.029
Traumatic time.

00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:38.536
I can't remember her wife's name, but, um, they met at Sierra Tucson, which is a rehab facility, north of Tucson, Arizona.

00:19:39.076 --> 00:19:39.796
And

00:19:40.050 --> 00:19:41.730
It's rehab and mental health, isn't it?

00:19:41.790 --> 00:19:42.990
You don't have to be an addict to go there.

00:19:43.316 --> 00:19:47.965
No, no, you, you don't, you know, because they also treat people with eating disorders and trauma.

00:19:47.996 --> 00:19:53.635
And so it was a, it was part of a trauma group and you know, she had, she was.

00:19:54.221 --> 00:19:59.590
Traumatized by her husband, her then husband, and had disassociated.

00:19:59.590 --> 00:20:05.201
And then I don't know if she like, I guess self-admitted or if someone admitted her to Sierra Tucson.

00:20:05.201 --> 00:20:07.810
But anyway, so she was very, very vulnerable

00:20:08.365 --> 00:20:08.455
yes.

00:20:08.830 --> 00:20:09.820
when they met.

00:20:10.057 --> 00:20:18.194
and so I kind of give her that, you know, she wasn't in a place she was fearing for her life because of her, her then husband, you know, just it.

00:20:19.154 --> 00:20:19.515
right.

00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:21.200
She had a lot going on.

00:20:21.454 --> 00:20:30.934
She had a lot going on in her, her kids were at risk of being taken away from her and with her very, you know, scary looking husband, who was abusive.

00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:31.250
Yeah.

00:20:31.255 --> 00:20:36.474
Sending her threatening messages and just really so I could see how.

00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:47.000
Finding someone who was very attentive and very affectionate and you know, everything that, you know, fiche portrayed herself to be, just kind of falling for

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:47.930
sure.

00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:48.740
Yes.

00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:49.579
that they're saying.

00:20:49.849 --> 00:20:55.305
But yeah, once your story starts being used as an episode, it just, oh man,

00:20:56.305 --> 00:20:59.009
I, I've never watched Grey's Anatomy, which is interesting.

00:20:59.009 --> 00:21:00.960
I've never actually seen the show.

00:21:01.109 --> 00:21:01.529
oh really?

00:21:02.250 --> 00:21:02.609
Mm-hmm.

00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:03.930
I mean, I know of it.

00:21:03.930 --> 00:21:05.369
It's been around for 20 years, hasn't it?

00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.769
20 plus years, but I've never actually watched it.

00:21:07.883 --> 00:21:14.153
Oh, I watched it initially and then it just kind of like, like all of those shows, it just starts to kind of go off.

00:21:14.782 --> 00:21:15.143
I don't know.

00:21:16.042 --> 00:21:25.853
There was one where like one of the doctors, she, I don't know, it was like, I can't even remember what it was, but there was one episode where I was like, okay, it jumped the shark.

00:21:26.063 --> 00:21:26.603
I'm done.

00:21:26.903 --> 00:21:28.673
Like, it just was like so outrageous.

00:21:29.123 --> 00:21:30.803
But um.

00:21:31.163 --> 00:21:38.853
I felt the same with ER was kind of that way too, where er just, you have helicopters crashing into hospitals, and then you just, just, it gets a little, like,

00:21:39.377 --> 00:21:39.798
yeah.

00:21:39.903 --> 00:21:41.192
they just try to make'em next level.

00:21:42.192 --> 00:21:42.553
Okay.

00:21:42.553 --> 00:21:43.032
So, um,

00:21:43.917 --> 00:21:47.788
Speaking of taking advantage of vulnerabilities and trust.

00:21:47.901 --> 00:21:49.490
Can we move on to Amanda Riley,

00:21:49.895 --> 00:21:50.586
yeah.

00:21:50.645 --> 00:21:51.816
So Amanda,

00:21:51.935 --> 00:21:52.566
Scamanda,

00:21:52.790 --> 00:21:57.800
She is, uh, featured in the, the series, the limited series Scamanda.

00:21:58.101 --> 00:21:59.330
and the podcast, which

00:21:59.451 --> 00:21:59.661
Oh,

00:21:59.901 --> 00:22:01.161
birth to the limited series.

00:22:01.250 --> 00:22:01.701
that's right.

00:22:01.701 --> 00:22:02.721
The podcast came first.

00:22:02.750 --> 00:22:06.020
Um, she claimed to have stage four Hodgkin's lymphoma.

00:22:06.411 --> 00:22:10.597
the series is, well, it's like a, b, c news or something.

00:22:10.748 --> 00:22:14.948
And so it's very, like, it repeats itself each episode.

00:22:14.948 --> 00:22:15.397
It's kind of.

00:22:15.742 --> 00:22:19.141
It's like Night Nightline 2020 where they drag it out a bit.

00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:19.461
Yeah.

00:22:19.461 --> 00:22:20.691
It didn't have to be that long.

00:22:21.020 --> 00:22:30.944
But, um, yeah, they really emphasized that she was, you know, a member of this church and she just was deceiving, all these people in her church.

00:22:31.275 --> 00:22:34.875
That one woman who was like, I was an atheist.

00:22:34.875 --> 00:22:41.954
And then my friend brought me to the church and then I like, you know, saw Amanda and her story and.

00:22:42.345 --> 00:22:43.934
Then she joins the church.

00:22:44.265 --> 00:22:46.815
She literally says in court when it all.

00:22:46.924 --> 00:22:54.994
When the shit hits the fan, she says in court, you are The reason I first prayed to God about Amanda for her cancer.

00:22:55.055 --> 00:23:01.391
That's how much empathy, she drew out of people and how manipulative she was with people's emotions Okay.

00:23:01.510 --> 00:23:09.550
The scenes, there's scenes in this, in this where, I know it's fictitious, but it's, it's like that's exactly what happened where she's on stage.

00:23:10.060 --> 00:23:21.651
There's one thing that's real with her on stage where she says some line that is just like, oh my God, the level of exploitation where she says something like, and I think it's considered her giving testimony, right?

00:23:22.280 --> 00:23:24.711
Don't ignore Jesus because he is there.

00:23:24.855 --> 00:23:30.944
It would be something like tragic or something if he brought you your miracle and you weren't paying attention

00:23:31.144 --> 00:23:33.694
Oh, they played that over and over.

00:23:33.795 --> 00:23:34.964
at least five times.

00:23:35.015 --> 00:23:35.615
Oh yeah.

00:23:36.224 --> 00:23:42.615
But that was basically the basis of her exploiting that church and people were just literally throwing money at her.

00:23:42.615 --> 00:23:44.295
Like, okay, we'll keep supporting you.

00:23:44.295 --> 00:23:44.954
We'll keep supporting you.

00:23:44.954 --> 00:23:51.194
And when they came to the church, the church was gonna defend her at first because it's ludicrous to think one of their members would fake cancer.

00:23:51.525 --> 00:23:55.845
Oh, and that one friend of hers had given her like tens of thousands of dollars.

00:23:56.085 --> 00:24:01.448
She's the one that didn't really believe it until Amanda pleaded guilty in court.

00:24:01.807 --> 00:24:03.994
Crazy, crazy.

00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:05.140
Okay.

00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:12.579
Her deception and her exploitation started in 2012 and didn't end until 2019.

00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:15.486
She had seven years of raising money.

00:24:15.595 --> 00:24:17.184
On behalf of her care.

00:24:17.275 --> 00:24:21.595
She, she filed bankruptcy, or she claimed to have filed bankruptcy, which she did.

00:24:21.595 --> 00:24:28.270
She, she actually put the paperwork in, which was the mistake because her crime that they finally convicted her of was fraud.

00:24:28.471 --> 00:24:29.131
Wire fraud.

00:24:29.131 --> 00:24:29.671
Yeah.

00:24:30.030 --> 00:24:32.005
wire fraud and a fake bankruptcy charge.

00:24:32.634 --> 00:24:39.644
Um, so yeah, even, even after they came after her for wire fraud, she still claimed to have cancer.

00:24:39.644 --> 00:24:46.311
And still the day after that she was put out a, post to raise money and awareness of a leukemia day or something.

00:24:46.609 --> 00:24:47.779
Oh, okay.

00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:55.009
And so the part where, again, like I said, like they're like little bits of their stories where you're just kind of like, if you have any, you know, knowledge.

00:24:55.190 --> 00:24:58.490
Of cancer, you're kind of like, huh, that's a little weird.

00:24:58.819 --> 00:25:10.400
Um, that clinical trial that she was allegedly on, like through Columbia University, she was told that she could self administer Keytruda at home.

00:25:10.819 --> 00:25:12.230
Right, right.

00:25:12.950 --> 00:25:13.609
Red flag.

00:25:13.670 --> 00:25:14.390
Red flag.

00:25:14.450 --> 00:25:15.109
Red flag.

00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:16.190
Yeah.

00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:17.214
Oh my gosh.

00:25:17.944 --> 00:25:35.644
And then like, and then the photograph, like, like all of the medical equipment and like, again, the photograph of like, you know, she's got her port and you know, she's hooked up to oxygen or, you know, and she's got, um, you know, infusion.

00:25:36.484 --> 00:25:39.664
Yeah, she, so she had a port, but then she also was getting infusions in her arm.

00:25:39.664 --> 00:25:40.144
I don't know.

00:25:40.204 --> 00:25:41.795
I mean, the whole thing was like.

00:25:42.380 --> 00:25:45.319
Yeah, and hers is, she did eventually get arrested.

00:25:45.829 --> 00:25:47.569
And spent jail time.

00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:48.740
Yeah.

00:25:48.740 --> 00:25:50.539
gonna get out pretty soon, I think.

00:25:50.809 --> 00:25:52.309
Um, on good behavior.

00:25:52.549 --> 00:25:56.029
She was sentenced to a lengthy amount of time.

00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:57.470
60 months.

00:25:57.500 --> 00:25:58.339
60 months.

00:25:58.339 --> 00:25:58.700
Yeah.

00:25:58.775 --> 00:26:10.835
Um, her husband who clearly had to be part of this'cause it was seven years and she had IV equipment in the house and taking pictures obviously of her in a scarf or whatever, whatever she's making up that day.

00:26:11.075 --> 00:26:12.244
Lots of pictures online.

00:26:12.335 --> 00:26:13.355
Very convincing.

00:26:13.505 --> 00:26:18.005
I mean, to the point where when you and I brought this up, you were like, wait a second, it, this looks legit.

00:26:18.035 --> 00:26:26.164
'cause she looks, you know, she's got an IV in a, she's in an IV room, but she did a spectacular job of getting herself in the hospital.

00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.519
Then taking a bunch of pictures.

00:26:29.113 --> 00:26:33.103
And I don't know if it, like, it wasn't so much like she looks legit.

00:26:33.103 --> 00:26:36.222
I was, I'm just more like, how do you pull that off?

00:26:36.492 --> 00:26:37.998
I mean, you know, she would get.

00:26:38.232 --> 00:26:42.313
Medical equipment, which I suppose now you could order, you know, through Amazon.

00:26:42.673 --> 00:26:47.339
Um, but there was an article that kind of talked about how she could have faked it.

00:26:47.546 --> 00:26:50.080
she got herself through the eR and got herself admitted for

00:26:50.276 --> 00:26:51.086
Something else.

00:26:51.641 --> 00:26:52.721
pain or whatever.

00:26:52.770 --> 00:26:53.060
Yeah.

00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:54.270
Yeah.

00:26:54.655 --> 00:26:56.455
Something you couldn't see, and then she'd get her workup.

00:26:56.506 --> 00:27:01.336
they put her in overnight and, uh, yeah, she would just take advantage of the bed in the setting.

00:27:01.996 --> 00:27:03.705
And her husband had to know about it.

00:27:04.020 --> 00:27:05.101
Absolutely.

00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:06.539
There's no charges against him.

00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:07.680
They're now divorced.

00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:12.369
and she claims her siblings, which I believe her brother probably did not know about it.

00:27:12.490 --> 00:27:14.049
Her mother, whose name is Peggy.

00:27:14.650 --> 00:27:16.630
It was a little more suspect, I mean.

00:27:16.779 --> 00:27:21.069
She claims to have gone with her to all these appointments while she was seeing doctors over the years.

00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.480
Hard to believe that her mother wasn't someone involved, but there's no proof of it, so,

00:27:25.525 --> 00:27:25.704
Yeah.

00:27:25.704 --> 00:27:28.375
I mean, how do you go to doctor's appointments?

00:27:29.005 --> 00:27:35.664
When someone doesn't have cancer and sit there and your take home message is, okay, they have cancer.

00:27:36.474 --> 00:27:39.224
I really liked the detective in Scamanda,

00:27:39.244 --> 00:27:39.664
Mm-hmm.

00:27:40.404 --> 00:27:42.055
private Detective Martinez.

00:27:42.115 --> 00:27:42.865
I really liked him.

00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:47.650
Wasn't he the, he was the, the, no, he wasn't a pi, was he?

00:27:48.220 --> 00:27:49.029
He was a, um,

00:27:49.555 --> 00:27:52.285
was he, was he an actual police officer at the time?

00:27:52.345 --> 00:27:53.184
Oh, now he's a pi.

00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:54.009
yeah, yeah.

00:27:54.009 --> 00:27:54.609
I think so.

00:27:54.789 --> 00:27:54.940
But

00:27:55.194 --> 00:27:57.265
Well, anyways, I, yeah, so.

00:27:57.775 --> 00:28:01.914
He discovered that fake letter from the doctor.

00:28:02.349 --> 00:28:03.099
Mm-hmm.

00:28:03.234 --> 00:28:12.265
Like there was a letter that I guess was altered and then he like, whatever, I like these connections that, you know, to like my life.

00:28:12.295 --> 00:28:13.434
'cause then I'm like, oh wow.

00:28:13.644 --> 00:28:18.065
So, um, she had said that she was like a patient at City of Hope

00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:19.670
Mm-hmm.

00:28:20.075 --> 00:28:23.555
and you know, they can't say whether or not, you know.

00:28:24.140 --> 00:28:25.700
They can't give a lot of information.

00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:26.869
They're patients.

00:28:26.930 --> 00:28:27.950
because of HIPAA laws?

00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:28.130
Mm-hmm.

00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:28.640
Yeah.

00:28:28.670 --> 00:28:32.299
But apparently he found out that she was never a City of Hope patient.

00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:36.410
Well, they could say that because she wasn't a patient, so they weren't protecting any patient.

00:28:36.724 --> 00:28:39.275
Privacy because they could say that.

00:28:39.424 --> 00:28:40.775
They could say, well, she hasn't been here.

00:28:41.089 --> 00:28:44.599
So had she been a patient they had, they would have to say, we can't say,

00:28:44.795 --> 00:28:45.664
Exactly.

00:28:46.664 --> 00:28:47.174
but yeah.

00:28:47.174 --> 00:28:49.394
So, and he had talked about like what.

00:28:49.845 --> 00:28:54.045
Her disorder is like an extreme form of narcissism.

00:28:55.045 --> 00:28:55.285
Interesting.

00:28:55.670 --> 00:29:02.180
so Scamanda is a little confusing in that Amanda was the nanny and teacher of.

00:29:02.765 --> 00:29:06.944
A couple's child who had cancer, that couple they end up divorcing.

00:29:06.944 --> 00:29:10.770
That's Corey and his wife, whose name is Alida.

00:29:11.040 --> 00:29:12.030
His wife's name's Alida.

00:29:12.030 --> 00:29:13.740
So Alida and Corey are married.

00:29:13.921 --> 00:29:16.921
They have a child with cancer whose name is Jamie.

00:29:17.401 --> 00:29:21.601
Jamie needs someone to both teach her at home as well as oversee her like a nanny.

00:29:21.961 --> 00:29:26.550
And Amanda gets hired to do this and Jamie has cancer.

00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:27.300
Like legit.

00:29:27.300 --> 00:29:27.510
Yeah.

00:29:27.510 --> 00:29:28.020
Legitimately.

00:29:28.455 --> 00:29:30.405
Legitimately this child has cancer.

00:29:30.405 --> 00:29:31.905
So that's how it all starts.

00:29:32.069 --> 00:29:36.972
Fast forward a few years, Corey divorces, Alida marries Amanda.

00:29:37.190 --> 00:29:37.609
right.

00:29:37.625 --> 00:29:38.464
Red flag

00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:39.440
Hello.

00:29:39.859 --> 00:29:42.470
And so this Jamie person,

00:29:42.607 --> 00:29:43.022
the child.

00:29:43.192 --> 00:29:46.519
the child who grows up, she's also interviewed in Scamanda.

00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:50.490
I find her to be one of the more compelling characters because she's.

00:29:50.585 --> 00:29:56.167
Very mature and she's talking about her perspective from a child's perspective, watching all of this unfold.

00:29:56.557 --> 00:30:01.837
Her mother and her stepmother, who clearly are arch enemies in real life.

00:30:02.083 --> 00:30:03.788
Well, they were trying to take her away.

00:30:03.788 --> 00:30:04.597
I mean, they did.

00:30:04.597 --> 00:30:05.048
They did.

00:30:05.048 --> 00:30:09.877
Like, they were like saying that Alita was like an unfit mother, and yeah, they took.

00:30:10.087 --> 00:30:10.478
Yeah.

00:30:10.778 --> 00:30:14.798
So there's a whole lot of drama in Scamanda that is not even cancer related.

00:30:14.798 --> 00:30:18.005
I was incredulous about This is just like not a good person.

00:30:18.335 --> 00:30:18.785
I mean,

00:30:18.950 --> 00:30:20.240
Not good people.

00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:21.184
Corey, either.

00:30:21.464 --> 00:30:22.585
I mean, yeah,

00:30:22.954 --> 00:30:23.615
Incredible.

00:30:23.615 --> 00:30:27.095
And there was another, there's a, there's another child that was not in there.

00:30:27.151 --> 00:30:28.861
she opted outta the whole thing.

00:30:29.205 --> 00:30:30.046
that was their child.

00:30:30.046 --> 00:30:32.445
That was, uh, Corey and Amanda's child.

00:30:32.851 --> 00:30:33.645
Her name's Jessa.

00:30:33.721 --> 00:30:34.080
Yeah.

00:30:34.711 --> 00:30:37.800
And Jessa opted out, which I don't blame her.

00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:45.250
That, you know, that's one of those where I, you know, I'd probably just change my name and try to get some help.

00:30:45.790 --> 00:30:47.201
'cause that can't be a normal household.

00:30:47.411 --> 00:30:50.681
You think your mother's dying of cancer because she duped the children as well.

00:30:50.681 --> 00:30:51.971
The kids thought she had cancer.

00:30:52.181 --> 00:30:55.901
At some point along the way, she says to them, I might need bone marrow from one or two of you.

00:30:56.067 --> 00:30:57.478
I mean, this is craziness.

00:30:57.701 --> 00:31:06.637
Was she the one who said that when she became pregnant that the cancer, yeah, she's the one who said that when she became pregnant, the cancer went into remission.

00:31:06.893 --> 00:31:07.403
Yes.

00:31:08.288 --> 00:31:08.798
Red flag.

00:31:09.083 --> 00:31:09.442
Yeah.

00:31:09.593 --> 00:31:10.883
Although it's not unheard of.

00:31:11.573 --> 00:31:12.863
You can find rare cases of that.

00:31:13.192 --> 00:31:15.413
I can think of a cervical cancer case that was published.

00:31:15.603 --> 00:31:16.663
But Hodgkin's Lymphoma,

00:31:17.057 --> 00:31:17.603
Oh, yeah.

00:31:17.663 --> 00:31:22.655
I mean, but I'm just saying like, you know, you, you, you do have a hybrid immune system at that moment.

00:31:22.865 --> 00:31:24.455
'cause the fetus and you are sharing a.

00:31:24.730 --> 00:31:29.740
An immune system that's new to you, so it's not like crazy.

00:31:29.800 --> 00:31:31.451
As crazy as some of the other things she said.

00:31:32.451 --> 00:31:37.026
I know, but it's just like, well, like what a, like, random thing to say, like, I don't know.

00:31:37.175 --> 00:31:37.506
yeah.

00:31:37.596 --> 00:31:37.990
I'm with you.

00:31:38.330 --> 00:31:40.040
I wanna kind of see all their notes.

00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:43.010
Like where, like where did they do their research?

00:31:43.266 --> 00:31:44.435
Oh, I think it's all in their head.

00:31:44.435 --> 00:31:46.145
That's why they would make mistakes eventually.

00:31:46.570 --> 00:31:51.036
Yeah, but I think the one who made the least mistakes was Elizabeth Finch,

00:31:51.050 --> 00:31:51.711
Yeah.

00:31:51.711 --> 00:31:52.971
Maybe she had the best rote memory.

00:31:53.298 --> 00:31:55.488
or she was a writer, so she knew how to research.

00:31:55.492 --> 00:32:01.907
The, the Condrosarcoma part was, to me, the weirdest part because it is typically in, um, older patients.

00:32:02.688 --> 00:32:09.887
And then like, yeah, there were the weird things where she, like, she apparently went through some clinical trial and was the only person who survived the clinical trial.

00:32:10.248 --> 00:32:10.758
Um.

00:32:11.282 --> 00:32:11.913
Yeah.

00:32:12.498 --> 00:32:16.337
Oh, what a horrible web we weave when first we practiced to deceive.

00:32:16.907 --> 00:32:18.077
I guess I didn't learn that lesson.

00:32:19.077 --> 00:32:19.798
Yeah.

00:32:20.038 --> 00:32:23.488
So anything else we wanna bring up about, about these?

00:32:23.667 --> 00:32:27.087
We'll have links to all of the shows in our, in our notes.

00:32:27.414 --> 00:32:31.480
It's unfortunate because we live in a world where fact and fiction.

00:32:31.775 --> 00:32:35.015
Are often colliding right in, in real life.

00:32:35.015 --> 00:32:40.994
And we're not sure what's news, what's information, what's disinformation, what's misinformation, what the hell's the difference between those three things all the time.

00:32:41.414 --> 00:32:57.730
And, um, this whole taking advantage of vulnerable people and, and their empathy and just it's so next level evil, whether it's for money or career gain or it's just simply a mental illness and they're narcissists and they just like to be the center of attention.

00:32:58.090 --> 00:33:06.671
Whatever it is, it's really another unpleasantry to this whole, kind of world of, what do we call them, alternative facts.

00:33:07.671 --> 00:33:15.681
And especially because there were people who actually had cancer, who got tied up in their, their webs of lies.

00:33:15.681 --> 00:33:25.171
Like, you know, you know, like the little boy in, bell Gibson story who actually had brain cancer and she had promised like all this money and never came through with that.

00:33:25.651 --> 00:33:27.840
Um, and then in.

00:33:28.246 --> 00:33:37.806
Amanda Riley's story, you know, Jamie who initially had cancer and then didn't, but just like exploit, like exploiting people who actually have cancer.

00:33:38.675 --> 00:33:48.079
and Amanda would do these I don't know if it was the leukemia, lymphoma events, where there are people who actually have cancer, who are involved and you know, just

00:33:48.619 --> 00:33:48.980
Yeah.

00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:50.180
that's just.

00:33:50.586 --> 00:33:56.576
Yeah, yeah, the money is bad enough, but there's real people getting hurt in in the end.

00:33:57.191 --> 00:34:11.804
And Bell Gibson, like one of the stories, at least in apple cider vinegar, and I know it was partially based on truth, is, um, that woman that we probably both saw in the first episode and that was it.

00:34:12.045 --> 00:34:13.514
but like her.

00:34:14.014 --> 00:34:25.545
Husband was a journalist and she started following more natural treatments because she became a follower of Bell Gibson.

00:34:25.545 --> 00:34:28.724
And, you know, she was diagnosed with breast cancer and decided to do natural things.

00:34:28.724 --> 00:34:33.465
And so like, I mean, it, it affected people more than their wallet.

00:34:34.309 --> 00:34:34.530
Yes.

00:34:34.784 --> 00:34:38.715
Like it affected people's lives, people and who knows how many people out there.

00:34:38.757 --> 00:34:48.922
Really bought into Bell Gibson and said they weren't gonna do treatment, and they bought her book and just, yeah, it's horrible.

00:34:49.092 --> 00:34:56.563
Yeah, so the, the Bell Gibson store that I did start watching is on Netflix called The Search for Instagram's Worst Con Artist.

00:34:56.590 --> 00:35:01.360
And that is on her, but it's an actual documentary and it predates the Apple Cider Vinegar.

00:35:01.737 --> 00:35:10.610
That journalist whose wife actually had cancer and who investigated her like a journalistic investigation investigation um, he.

00:35:11.076 --> 00:35:20.777
It was very clear that he was disturbed because he knew that this was highly suspicious, that she cleared herself of, glioblastoma, and he was disturbed for that exact reason.

00:35:20.777 --> 00:35:24.197
This is actually leading to harm if people are not going to do their conventional therapy.

00:35:24.197 --> 00:35:26.057
That could be, especially if it's gonna be curative.

00:35:26.597 --> 00:35:29.117
Um, which interestingly is the case for some lymphomas.

00:35:29.117 --> 00:35:30.077
Aggressive lymphomas can be.

00:35:30.572 --> 00:35:32.762
Cured with chemotherapy.

00:35:32.932 --> 00:35:37.996
I'd love for another, you know, treatment to be there that's less toxic and more specific.

00:35:37.996 --> 00:35:39.166
And we're getting there.

00:35:39.195 --> 00:35:40.365
We're getting there with immunotherapies.

00:35:40.365 --> 00:35:49.635
But you know, whenever someone has a diagnosis of cancer, the big question on the table, and this is always right outta the gates, as soon as you get your diagnosis, is there a curative treatment?

00:35:50.190 --> 00:35:50.820
That I can do.

00:35:51.510 --> 00:36:00.721
And if there's a curative treatment that's been reliably used, that's the direction you should try to go in and then make that as tolerable as possible if it happens to be chemo.

00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:05.490
So to your point, the disservice was who knows?

00:36:06.061 --> 00:36:14.561
Who knows how many people took a a route of juicing or dietary stuff and refused treatment altogether?

00:36:14.835 --> 00:36:15.226
Yeah.

00:36:15.971 --> 00:36:19.570
Or delayed it greatly, which we know delaying is not a good idea.

00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:21.641
I mean, that actually is proven in studies.

00:36:22.061 --> 00:36:23.081
Delaying is a bad idea.

00:36:23.650 --> 00:36:30.315
Get on it and, and if there's cure, do it, do that treatment and you know, hopefully you come out the other side without any cancer.

00:36:30.914 --> 00:36:33.990
But yeah, I think that's the biggest offense of all of these too.

00:36:34.681 --> 00:36:41.423
I mean, money's just money, but anyone who bought that idea and is no longer with us because of it, is the true tragedy.

00:36:41.577 --> 00:36:42.686
I'm sure that that's the case.

00:36:43.384 --> 00:36:43.713
Yeah.

00:36:44.224 --> 00:36:44.523
Yeah.

00:36:44.523 --> 00:36:47.253
So the documentary, I think I'm gonna finish watching.

00:36:47.253 --> 00:36:50.284
I just watched one of two of those episodes so far on her, on Bell.

00:36:50.434 --> 00:36:50.793
Yeah.

00:36:50.793 --> 00:36:52.744
I, I downloaded to watch that one.

00:36:53.014 --> 00:36:54.603
Um, I think I started watching it.

00:36:54.603 --> 00:36:56.643
I started getting confused, honestly.

00:36:57.123 --> 00:36:58.173
yeah, yeah, me too.

00:36:58.204 --> 00:36:59.434
This was a lot to take in

00:36:59.914 --> 00:37:00.393
Yeah.

00:37:00.467 --> 00:37:06.070
cause they have overlaps, they all exploit people, take advantage of vulnerabilities and have absolutely no conscience at all.

00:37:06.610 --> 00:37:06.940
Yeah.

00:37:06.940 --> 00:37:20.643
And I think the only one who You know, who wasn't like a wellness influencer, kind of, you know, claiming, Elizabeth Finch was the one who like wasn't sort of, she was profiting off of her history of cancer,

00:37:20.838 --> 00:37:21.259
Yes.

00:37:21.664 --> 00:37:25.684
but it wasn't the same as the other two.

00:37:25.684 --> 00:37:30.273
Not that it was any better, it was really warped, but

00:37:30.978 --> 00:37:32.030
Yeah, she kind of threw her.

00:37:32.143 --> 00:37:35.744
Brother under the bus by accusing him of things that he didn't do.

00:37:36.193 --> 00:37:37.378
Oh my God.

00:37:38.378 --> 00:37:53.688
No, because, because it was something that happened to someone else, someone who confided in her, and then she turned it into being her brother and then claimed her brother had killed himself after it was actually, um, uh, her wife's ex, husband killed himself.

00:37:54.688 --> 00:37:55.139
Oh my God.

00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:55.889
I'm not laughing.

00:37:55.889 --> 00:37:58.338
I'm just like, so like you said, incredulous like.

00:37:59.224 --> 00:38:04.114
And so then she yeah, completely accused her brother of these like awful things.

00:38:04.548 --> 00:38:05.478
To her parents.

00:38:06.048 --> 00:38:08.208
She even said it to her own parents, they're like, huh?

00:38:08.485 --> 00:38:08.755
Yeah.

00:38:08.755 --> 00:38:09.356
I mean.

00:38:09.820 --> 00:38:13.931
I actually thought that that show was very good.

00:38:14.050 --> 00:38:15.431
It was decently done.

00:38:15.431 --> 00:38:17.380
Anatomy of lies was, was well done.

00:38:17.650 --> 00:38:20.501
I like the documentary that I'm watching on Belle Gibson.

00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:27.070
I think apple cider vinegar is really, maybe there's supposed to be, leave a bad taste in my mouth, but it's apple cider vinegar.

00:38:27.431 --> 00:38:31.005
Um, and Scamanda is kind of hokey, but it's,

00:38:31.036 --> 00:38:36.646
well, the said like, like we said, it's, it's more like an A, B, C news special run out, like

00:38:37.036 --> 00:38:41.445
On that note, just that, that reminds me the podcast is much better.

00:38:42.045 --> 00:38:46.460
I thought the podcast was actually better than the Netflix, than the special on hulu.

00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:52.090
So, and the woman who did the podcast, she's in the, the show, right?

00:38:52.181 --> 00:38:53.411
She's in the, the TV show?

00:38:53.561 --> 00:38:53.920
Yeah.

00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.780
I just, it, it's that whole, like you said, like 60 minutes kind of, no, more like not a 60 minutes.

00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:00.431
It's more like a 2020 kind of

00:39:00.673 --> 00:39:00.893
yes.

00:39:01.634 --> 00:39:02.324
one of those.

00:39:03.324 --> 00:39:08.123
I mean, and you know, they have like reenactment type things and mixed in with the real footage.

00:39:08.333 --> 00:39:08.634
Okay.

00:39:08.634 --> 00:39:12.653
That's the other thing that I think is incredible is the real footage,

00:39:13.364 --> 00:39:13.869
Uh oh.

00:39:14.094 --> 00:39:26.793
because this is the time of like, cell phones and Instagram and all of that, and like some of the footage that they have, it's pretty amazing that someone was recording this, even anatomy of lies.

00:39:26.793 --> 00:39:29.603
Like someone's got a camera out and they're filming.

00:39:30.009 --> 00:39:38.041
You know, Elizabeth with her wife's kids and all of these things, like, it's just, it's really crazy.

00:39:38.092 --> 00:39:42.202
I mean, again, there is, you know, this reenactment,

00:39:42.456 --> 00:39:42.876
Yes.

00:39:43.155 --> 00:39:47.786
but there's also actual footage and what they've obtained is really incredible.

00:39:47.981 --> 00:39:48.340
Yeah,

00:39:48.641 --> 00:39:49.030
yeah.

00:39:49.150 --> 00:39:51.061
The actual footage is, more my style.

00:39:51.061 --> 00:39:52.110
I wanna see the documentary.

00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.061
I don't, I don't really need the artistic license.

00:39:54.061 --> 00:39:55.800
These people's stories are already.

00:39:56.018 --> 00:39:56.798
Outlandish enough.

00:39:57.273 --> 00:39:58.382
on that note, I'm Dr.

00:39:58.382 --> 00:39:59.103
Leah Sherman,

00:39:59.217 --> 00:39:59.757
and I'm Dr.

00:39:59.757 --> 00:40:00.378
Tina Kaczor

00:40:00.449 --> 00:40:01.650
and this is the Cancer Pod.

00:40:01.677 --> 00:40:02.427
Until next time.

00:40:03.329 --> 00:40:05.070
Thanks for listening to the Cancer Pod.

00:40:05.429 --> 00:40:09.929
Remember to subscribe, review and rate us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:40:09.929 --> 00:40:14.880
Follow us on social media for updates, and as always, this is not medical advice.

00:40:15.030 --> 00:40:16.501
These are our opinions.

00:40:16.610 --> 00:40:20.061
Talk to your doctor before changing anything related to your treatment plan.

00:40:20.246 --> 00:40:22.226
The Cancer Pod is hosted by me, Dr.

00:40:22.226 --> 00:40:23.907
Leah Sherman, and by Dr.

00:40:23.907 --> 00:40:24.757
Tina Kaczor.

00:40:25.226 --> 00:40:26.936
Music is by Kevin McLeod.

00:40:27.567 --> 00:40:28.402
See you next time.