Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:04.347
this is a good recap of episode four for those who did not listen to us at that time.
00:00:04.722 --> 00:00:05.543
It's still online.
00:00:05.592 --> 00:00:08.022
It's still in your podcast player.
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:09.442
I was really afraid.
00:00:09.452 --> 00:00:14.939
That episode really, I remember starting off and being really afraid that it was just going to like piss people off.
00:00:14.980 --> 00:00:15.789
But, you know, now
00:00:15.814 --> 00:00:15.894
I know.
00:00:16.019 --> 00:00:17.010
the Surgeon General behind
00:00:17.184 --> 00:00:17.565
Yeah.
00:00:17.821 --> 00:00:18.192
Yeah.
00:00:18.445 --> 00:00:19.565
Don't blame the messenger.
00:00:20.105 --> 00:00:20.964
We didn't make the data.
00:00:21.382 --> 00:00:23.411
We both have cocktails on occasion, too.
00:00:23.602 --> 00:00:25.891
So, like you said, there's nothing wrong with that.
00:00:25.902 --> 00:00:25.981
It's
00:00:26.207 --> 00:00:28.155
We all have one.
00:00:28.155 --> 00:00:28.641
Together.
00:00:28.641 --> 00:00:29.871
together on occasion.
00:00:30.812 --> 00:00:31.512
It's okay.
00:00:31.972 --> 00:00:34.661
We're, we're mindful of the risk we're taking at that moment.
00:01:22.326 --> 00:01:23.466
Happy New Year, Tina
00:01:23.870 --> 00:01:24.900
Happy New Year, Leah.
00:01:24.900 --> 00:01:35.450
So we're kind of starting the, the new year with, um, some news that isn't really news because it's something we covered like in episode four.
00:01:35.450 --> 00:01:37.070
Oh, yes.
00:01:37.301 --> 00:01:38.691
I said news that isn't really news.
00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:39.820
You know what I thought you were going to say?
00:01:40.710 --> 00:01:43.796
That 2025 we're going to do more news headlines.
00:01:43.990 --> 00:01:46.120
We are, that's actually probably a better way to start.
00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:46.751
Thank you Tina.
00:01:46.990 --> 00:01:54.911
Uh, we're gonna talk more about cancer in the news and, and yeah, the, this big news that's in all the headlines.
00:01:55.509 --> 00:01:58.938
It's kind of been known for at least 40 years
00:01:58.963 --> 00:01:59.634
Yes.
00:01:59.838 --> 00:02:01.769
and we talked about it four years ago.
00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:02.359
Yep.
00:02:02.381 --> 00:02:04.361
The evil demon alcohol.
00:02:04.396 --> 00:02:05.635
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:05.956 --> 00:02:11.126
So what started this whole conversation is the Surgeon General Vivek Murthy.
00:02:11.216 --> 00:02:18.044
He wants to put a warning label on alcohol saying that it can cause cancer.
00:02:18.653 --> 00:02:26.080
currently alcohol has the warning against, you know, drinking alcohol while pregnant and operating heavy machinery and driving that sort of thing.
00:02:26.500 --> 00:02:35.120
Yeah, I think that, I think there's a little, at the very end on the warning it says, and other health conditions, or something like that, something kind of vague about alcohol not being great for you.
00:02:35.574 --> 00:02:35.985
Yeah.
00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:38.008
And he wants it to really be strong,
00:02:38.313 --> 00:02:39.003
he does.
00:02:39.014 --> 00:02:39.524
He does.
00:02:39.544 --> 00:02:44.028
And if you like, look at the numbers, there's in the U.
00:02:44.028 --> 00:02:44.218
S.
00:02:44.229 --> 00:02:51.748
like a hundred thousand cases of cancer can be attributed to alcohol and 20, 000 cancer deaths
00:02:52.395 --> 00:02:53.395
attributed to alcohol.
00:02:53.450 --> 00:02:54.621
attributed to alcohol.
00:02:55.350 --> 00:02:55.700
Yeah.
00:02:55.721 --> 00:02:59.580
In terms of The cancers that are associated with alcohol consumption.
00:02:59.700 --> 00:03:00.151
Yeah.
00:03:00.431 --> 00:03:00.781
Yeah.
00:03:00.811 --> 00:03:12.585
My understanding when I was looking at some of these news briefs coming across is that in Ireland, they've already passed legislation that will put a very strong warning in 2026.
00:03:13.775 --> 00:03:27.919
alcohol causes aggressive cancers or something really like akin to the tobacco label that I see in Canada that said tobacco kills, you know, when we were kind of hedging over here, tobacco may cause cancer of the lung,
00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:28.620
Right.
00:03:29.865 --> 00:03:35.155
so I also read, confirmed this for me, cause I think you looked into this further than I did, but.
00:03:36.004 --> 00:03:41.655
It takes an act of Congress to change the label on the alcohol bottles, is that true?
00:03:41.870 --> 00:03:42.469
Yeah.
00:03:42.539 --> 00:03:43.569
Yeah, it does.
00:03:44.365 --> 00:03:49.865
That's actually, I mean, I shouldn't laugh, I just think that it's funny, don't we use that as like, what does it take, an act of Congress?
00:03:49.955 --> 00:03:50.275
You know.
00:03:50.745 --> 00:03:51.205
Yes,
00:03:51.312 --> 00:03:54.692
And I even watched an interview with the Surgeon General and he mentioned that.
00:03:54.692 --> 00:03:57.875
because he's, you know, we're about to change administrations.
00:03:57.875 --> 00:04:04.775
And so he was saying, but you know, it will take an act of Congress, but I guess back in the sixties, that's what they did with, um, tobacco warnings.
00:04:04.784 --> 00:04:05.134
So.
00:04:05.610 --> 00:04:06.009
Right.
00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:16.740
Well, for obvious reasons, because tobacco was a huge lobby group and they had the Congress people in their pockets, so of course they wanted it to be an act of Congress, that's why it took so darn long, even though we had evidence.
00:04:17.245 --> 00:04:27.134
Well, you know, what's really interesting is there's been all of this stuff about like, you know, wellness influencers and all of these people have been talking about things that are so bad for our health.
00:04:27.154 --> 00:04:32.060
And this whole alcohol thing, they haven't really said anything about.
00:04:32.661 --> 00:04:33.750
No one's touching it.
00:04:33.940 --> 00:04:35.540
No, it's so funny.
00:04:35.721 --> 00:04:38.240
And like people will get really like up in arms.
00:04:38.451 --> 00:04:41.341
And they're like, but, but, and I'm like, well, maybe you should check yourself.
00:04:41.370 --> 00:04:44.420
Maybe you should like see what your relationship with alcohol is.
00:04:44.451 --> 00:04:46.021
Why are you so upset?
00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:48.380
about this announcement.
00:04:48.721 --> 00:04:53.050
So, um, yeah, so that's what we're going to talk about today is alcohol and cancer.
00:04:53.490 --> 00:05:02.505
And we'll talk about, what the current alcohol guidelines are, which we've talked about all this, but then we're just going to rehash this and kind of bring it, to the forefront.
00:05:02.696 --> 00:05:10.975
yeah, the larger context to play devil's advocate is there's the cancer aspect, but people are more complex than just cancer.
00:05:11.305 --> 00:05:31.572
So, what are the recommendations in the You know, heart association world or the dementia groups, or, you know, like alcohol itself may not have a lot of redeeming qualities for health, but some of the vehicles do have other components that have been advocated for health, like wine and the resveratrol and polyphenols.
00:05:31.637 --> 00:05:31.927
Right.
00:05:31.927 --> 00:05:34.266
But it's the resveratrol, it's not the wine.
00:05:34.584 --> 00:05:34.915
Yeah.
00:05:34.915 --> 00:05:35.615
So, okay.
00:05:35.615 --> 00:05:37.694
the current guideline is.
00:05:37.898 --> 00:05:50.293
Like one drink a day for women and two drinks for men is what's the guideline, but in terms of safety, there actually is not any safe amount.
00:05:50.942 --> 00:05:50.952
Mm
00:05:51.362 --> 00:05:55.769
Let's say someone drinks like four glasses of wine a week.
00:05:55.829 --> 00:06:01.279
what is recommended is that you don't drink those all in one sitting, that it is spread out if you were to do that.
00:06:01.456 --> 00:06:03.057
But, just knowing that.
00:06:03.896 --> 00:06:05.916
There really isn't any safe level of alcohol
00:06:06.100 --> 00:06:13.423
Well, and I think when the people who created that guideline for the public were pressed as to how they found.
00:06:14.103 --> 00:06:17.483
A definitive one drink a day for women and two for men.
00:06:18.180 --> 00:06:24.170
They admitted that the only reason they did that was because they didn't think people would do zero.
00:06:24.970 --> 00:06:27.389
They didn't think people would abstain from alcohol.
00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:28.579
So they kind of
00:06:29.420 --> 00:06:29.879
hedged.
00:06:30.350 --> 00:06:30.939
They did.
00:06:31.009 --> 00:06:39.709
they put it there so that there was something, and It's more of a perception that people couldn't do abstinence from alcohol or that that might backfire maybe.
00:06:39.709 --> 00:06:40.180
I don't know.
00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:43.379
But in their interpretation, they said the data doesn't back it up.
00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:48.255
We just thought that this was more a practical way of doing it back in the day when they created the one for women, two for men.
00:06:48.552 --> 00:06:54.463
So I just thought, I thought that was kind of interesting, a little bit of artistic license with the science there.
00:06:54.713 --> 00:06:55.213
Yeah.
00:06:55.584 --> 00:06:55.884
Yeah.
00:06:55.894 --> 00:06:59.413
Because, because we just wouldn't be capable of avoiding it altogether.
00:06:59.937 --> 00:07:07.437
so one of the big things that came out, I think from the surgeon general's, statement is that.
00:07:07.584 --> 00:07:16.093
Alcohol is the third leading preventable cause of cancer behind smoking and obesity.
00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:16.829
Yeah.
00:07:17.031 --> 00:07:25.713
So everyone talks about preventing or reducing your risk of cancer, and, you know, you don't really hear that much about it.
00:07:25.834 --> 00:07:31.170
Again, I'm thinking of these wellness influencers and stuff, like nobody's talking about like avoiding your rosé
00:07:31.170 --> 00:07:41.100
No, you know, it's, it's harsh to do that because, you know, it's that inconvenient truth kind of idea where people get hit with that and they don't want to hear that.
00:07:41.201 --> 00:07:48.161
And so if you're an influencer, you want people following you, and if you give them bad news like that, that's not, that's not conducive to your brand.
00:07:49.103 --> 00:07:51.413
I know, but I, you know, like I've found it for so long.
00:07:51.413 --> 00:08:13.874
I've found it so cringy whenever it's like October and like, you know, breast cancer awareness month and there are like wine gatherings or special bottles of wine with pink ribbons on them, all that pink washing, and it's around alcohol or anything where it's like some sort of fundraiser, I'm not saying like a general fundraiser, maybe like with a big dinner and everything.
00:08:13.874 --> 00:08:16.759
But if it's like, I can't think of anything in specific.
00:08:16.858 --> 00:08:18.309
I think of things specifically.
00:08:18.309 --> 00:08:26.809
I don't want to say their names, but anything where it's like, Something in beer, you know, maybe like yoga and wine for breast cancer.
00:08:26.809 --> 00:08:28.478
I don't know if that exists, but it probably does.
00:08:28.649 --> 00:08:30.389
You know, I just think that's so cringy
00:08:30.791 --> 00:08:31.781
Yeah, I understand.
00:08:31.922 --> 00:08:32.292
Yeah.
00:08:33.032 --> 00:08:33.892
Cause you're a purist.
00:08:33.902 --> 00:08:35.812
And now here's my pure.
00:08:36.461 --> 00:08:36.772
Yeah.
00:08:37.022 --> 00:08:40.241
Because you're literally saying that that's a carcinogen you're giving out
00:08:40.831 --> 00:08:41.341
right?
00:08:41.351 --> 00:08:47.322
It's like, it's like, let's do a lung cancer, fundraiser with, uh, radon and cigarettes, you know?
00:08:47.692 --> 00:08:48.361
Yeah.
00:08:48.542 --> 00:08:49.032
Yeah.
00:08:49.469 --> 00:08:50.639
So here's the big picture.
00:08:50.649 --> 00:08:51.708
Here's my question.
00:08:51.818 --> 00:08:53.839
It's clearly carcinogenic.
00:08:54.198 --> 00:08:55.458
I mean, that's not even disputed.
00:08:55.458 --> 00:08:56.288
I mean, the science is there.
00:08:56.288 --> 00:09:04.178
We can talk about that There is some data showing that people who a drink had less neurodegeneration.
00:09:05.774 --> 00:09:08.254
For example, so, so my
00:09:08.485 --> 00:09:09.644
A drink of what?
00:09:09.705 --> 00:09:10.424
A drink of what?
00:09:10.674 --> 00:09:11.325
alcohol,
00:09:11.634 --> 00:09:12.595
Any alcohol.
00:09:12.764 --> 00:09:15.605
I think it was various types of alcohol, like a drink a day.
00:09:16.554 --> 00:09:29.504
So I'm only saying this because in the real world, let's face it, someone has a half a glass of wine or a smidge of something and it takes their stress from, a super high level to a lower level.
00:09:29.815 --> 00:09:30.434
I don't know.
00:09:30.495 --> 00:09:31.934
Some, sometimes I'm like, I don't know.
00:09:31.934 --> 00:09:32.924
Like, yeah, you're, you're right.
00:09:33.715 --> 00:09:44.914
Doing a detriment in the long run because it's clearly carcinogenic, but at that moment does the De stressing give you enough benefit for your overall health that it cancels out.
00:09:44.924 --> 00:09:45.205
You know what I
00:09:45.345 --> 00:09:45.735
Yeah.
00:09:45.735 --> 00:09:49.274
I mean, then that would be trying to find a different way to de stress
00:09:49.278 --> 00:09:49.437
for
00:09:49.465 --> 00:09:51.674
To To replace it.
00:09:52.235 --> 00:09:52.644
yeah,
00:09:53.024 --> 00:10:04.184
yeah, because I think there were some studies showing that drinking red wine decreases the risk of heart attack, but then like alcohol increases your risk of hypertension and other things.
00:10:04.195 --> 00:10:06.144
So it's like, it's such a like
00:10:06.294 --> 00:10:06.725
Yeah,
00:10:07.794 --> 00:10:08.225
anyways.
00:10:08.254 --> 00:10:09.414
Um, okay.
00:10:09.414 --> 00:10:12.544
So I want to talk about like what standard drinks are.
00:10:12.544 --> 00:10:14.315
So in the U S.
00:10:14.764 --> 00:10:22.481
Uh, serving of alcohol is five fluid ounces of wine, 12 ounces of beer, or, one and a half ounces of liquor.
00:10:22.735 --> 00:10:23.434
that's a serving
00:10:23.654 --> 00:10:25.325
That's a serving of alcohol.
00:10:25.455 --> 00:10:29.054
But, we have to add to this, that is what beer used to be.
00:10:29.105 --> 00:10:31.865
That was like, our good old Budweiser and such.
00:10:32.053 --> 00:10:32.864
I mean, it still is.
00:10:32.864 --> 00:10:33.823
That's your average beer.
00:10:33.833 --> 00:10:35.293
That's not your craft,
00:10:35.428 --> 00:10:35.899
Right.
00:10:35.994 --> 00:10:37.504
fancy IPA type.
00:10:37.504 --> 00:10:39.014
The thing I
00:10:39.304 --> 00:10:39.985
Yes.
00:10:40.164 --> 00:10:42.158
So, I thought it was four ounces of wine.
00:10:42.158 --> 00:10:42.889
You sure it's five?
00:10:44.303 --> 00:10:44.903
saw was five
00:10:45.139 --> 00:10:45.458
Okay.
00:10:45.673 --> 00:10:46.354
because I just looked it up.
00:10:47.158 --> 00:10:47.568
So,
00:10:47.864 --> 00:10:49.323
Maybe they increased it.
00:10:49.563 --> 00:10:50.053
What's that?
00:10:50.413 --> 00:10:50.913
Maybe they
00:10:51.244 --> 00:10:51.783
Yeah, right?
00:10:51.783 --> 00:10:53.014
The powers that be increased it.
00:10:53.464 --> 00:10:54.573
The wine industry was there.
00:10:54.884 --> 00:10:58.706
Um, the higher the alcohol content, obviously the lower the volume you can do.
00:10:58.706 --> 00:11:02.767
So with beer, if it's a four or 5 percent beer, you can get 12 ounces.
00:11:03.277 --> 00:11:06.937
But if it's a six to 8 percent beer, 12 ounces is going to be
00:11:07.241 --> 00:11:07.591
A lot.
00:11:07.642 --> 00:11:08.091
Yeah.
00:11:08.106 --> 00:11:08.716
than one serving.
00:11:10.042 --> 00:11:10.422
Yeah.
00:11:10.741 --> 00:11:24.705
So, um, the cancers that are implicated in alcohol consumption are breast and it's hormone receptor positive HER2 negative breast is one of them.
00:11:24.705 --> 00:11:33.188
And I think the other one is lobular, colorectal cancer, esophageal cancer, liver, oral cancers.
00:11:33.658 --> 00:11:38.085
Um, and then pharyngeal, your pharynx, laryngeal cancer.
00:11:38.169 --> 00:11:38.389
hmm.
00:11:38.792 --> 00:11:40.341
So, and it doesn't matter what you drink.
00:11:40.341 --> 00:11:43.631
It's not like, oh, well, then I just won't drink liquor, I'll just drink beer.
00:11:43.631 --> 00:11:44.182
It doesn't matter.
00:11:44.182 --> 00:11:45.182
It's alcohol in general.
00:11:45.344 --> 00:11:45.764
Mm hmm.
00:11:45.889 --> 00:11:52.162
and then this is kind of a interesting statistic that for breast cancer itself, 16.
00:11:52.162 --> 00:11:57.572
4 percent of total breast cancer cases are attributable to alcohol.
00:11:57.572 --> 00:11:58.001
Wow.
00:11:58.447 --> 00:11:58.797
Yeah.
00:11:59.011 --> 00:11:59.841
That seems like a lot.
00:12:00.476 --> 00:12:01.126
It does.
00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:02.009
It does.
00:12:02.256 --> 00:12:06.506
you know, we've both had patients who've never had a stitch of alcohol in their life and they've had breast cancer.
00:12:06.506 --> 00:12:08.606
So, you know, it's breast cancer happens.
00:12:08.937 --> 00:12:12.216
But it is it is a big number.
00:12:12.616 --> 00:12:19.106
It seems like, well, it's more than my population, but maybe I don't have the general population coming through my doors when I practice, right?
00:12:19.236 --> 00:12:19.586
So,
00:12:20.006 --> 00:12:20.386
You're right.
00:12:20.386 --> 00:12:31.596
You because because in private practice, you tend to have people who are more naturopathic, perhaps a little bit more mindful of their consumption.
00:12:32.057 --> 00:12:32.417
Yeah.
00:12:32.866 --> 00:12:46.600
Yeah, I do recall that one incidence of a woman who I actually, I was actually a visiting doctor in Indiana at the time when I asked her what she drank, and she said she had a drink every night when she got home, and I said, Oh, what do you drink?
00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:48.250
And she said, I drink whiskey.
00:12:48.470 --> 00:12:49.049
I believe it was whiskey.
00:12:49.049 --> 00:12:49.830
I know it was hard liquor.
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.409
And I said, So you only have one drink?
00:12:52.409 --> 00:12:53.090
She said, Yes.
00:12:53.139 --> 00:12:55.200
And I said, How big is your glass?
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:57.990
And she's, she kind of smiled wryly.
00:12:57.990 --> 00:13:00.267
She's like, It's a, it's like a highball glass.
00:13:00.277 --> 00:13:01.307
It's probably about four ounces.
00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:02.620
So
00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:05.210
like she's having like, you know, double shot at
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.740
yeah, so all that is is a risk factor.
00:13:07.750 --> 00:13:09.600
It doesn't mean it caused her cancer.
00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:16.320
I, I want to be really careful about that because I think blaming people for their own cancer is a really dangerous place to go.
00:13:16.899 --> 00:13:21.970
But it's no different than any other risk factor for any other condition or something out in the world.
00:13:21.971 --> 00:13:33.330
I mean, it's, it's, You control the risk factors that you can control in your behavior and your lifestyle as best you can, because there are many risk factors you can't control, like your own You know, family history, for example, your genes,
00:13:33.695 --> 00:13:40.544
Or the exposures that we get every single day, you know, from the air and the soil, like we can't control those things.
00:13:40.659 --> 00:13:41.710
right, right.
00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:43.169
So risk factors add up.
00:13:43.169 --> 00:13:57.860
So if somebody is, I don't know, they're sedentary and they are drinking a lot and they end up, um, taking on smoking, I mean, now you're, you're, you're getting an additive effect of risk factors as you pile them on.
00:13:57.870 --> 00:14:11.095
So I want to say that just to be clear that even this woman who I, Had a lot of empathy for because, you know, she didn't know that that was a risk factor for breast cancer until she was told afterwards, and there's no guarantee that was what caused it.
