Transcript
WEBVTT
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And that is where melanona Mel.
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Who's What did I just say?
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Melanona.
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I think I know
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Who is she?
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I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one
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and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside
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And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care
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But we're not your doctors
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This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only do not apply any of this information
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without first speaking to your doctor
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The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own
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Welcome to the cancer pod Hey, Tina,
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Hi, Leah.
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I know you don't have the TikTok, but there was this trend going around.
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I don't know if you saw it in the news where I guess a bunch of influencers were talking about sunscreen and how it's bad for you and you shouldn't, they were kind of promoting not using sunscreen.
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Did you hear about that?
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I didn't think so.
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My knowledge of TikTok is pretty, it's pretty narrow.
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I know, but it was, it was making, like, The rounds in the news, because it is concerning, um, something I learned is that Gen Z gets a lot of their health information from social media.
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So I'm assuming from TikTok, what is even more interesting is when I searched to find these anti sunscreen videos, all I found were anti, anti dermatologists and other influencers talking about, Oh, no, no, no.
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This is what.
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You know, the science shows, or this is what is safe, or I'm just promoting this product.
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You know, how they all kind of try to sell you something.
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Anyways, I thought that was really interesting.
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and it kind of drove me to think that we should talk about just sun safety in general.
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Yeah.
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Tis the season.
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is the season.
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Yes.
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Um, where I'm at right now, it's not sunny, but that doesn't really matter when it comes to sun safety.
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No, because in preparing for this, I saw that there's actually higher rates of some skin cancers, like melanoma, in Oregon than there is in Texas.
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That is really surprising.
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but I can see that because at least when I lived in Arizona, nobody went outside in the middle of the summer because it's 450 degrees Fahrenheit.
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Uh, and so in Oregon, people are like, Oh, it's, you know, it's, it's not sunny out.
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So I could, I definitely could see that.
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I also think, I don't know about any more, but I know when I first moved to Portland, there was a lot of tanning booths.
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Hmm.
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Yeah.
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So a lot of people miss their sunshine and their rays, so they go and sit in a tanning bed.
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Right.
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And so I don't know with all of the regulations that, um, went down with tanning beds.
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I don't know if that's necessarily the truth anymore, but I can see that because of the, the overcast weather, people think they're safe.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and we tend to get our sunshine in consecutive days and months, and then we lose all sunshine for several months.
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So there's like, it's not intermittent throughout the year, where I grew up in upstate New York, there was, it was some sunshine in the wintertime as well as the summertime.
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it was parsed out through the 12 months of the year, a little bit more steadily, and here in the Northwest, we get it or we don't.
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Oh,
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you know, my, my own social media that as soon as there's a sunny day, people start posting pictures of their sunburns.
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know, people in the Portland area start doing that.
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So I think that's the thing too, right?
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It's the first sunny day and everyone runs out in shorts and a tank top and.
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absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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Or they're gardening and then it was like, they're beet rad.
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So.
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Yeah.
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It might be 55 degrees out, but if the sun is shining, people are wearing shorts.
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Yeah, not me, but, but people do.
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Yes, that is very true.
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Not me.
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I'm still, I'm in a fleece right now.
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Um, so yeah, I think, you know, you mentioned the skin cancer thing, and I think that is something a lot of people, you know, obviously relate to with, sun exposure, and I think that's a really important thing, that some people think in terms of skin cancer, like, Oh, basal cell squamous cell, those are, those are like, you know, I'm putting big finger quotes, easy cancers, they're not necessarily dangerous.
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And that's not necessarily true.
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No.
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Caught early.
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Generally, that is a very good prognosis, caught early squamous cell cancers of the skin and basal cell carcinomas of the skin and even melanoma.
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When it's caught early, in its earliest stages, is very good prognosis because surgically you can remove the whole thing.
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But it can get sneaky sometimes too.
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Oh, absolutely.
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And the thing with these skin cancers is that you're not necessarily just removing, you know, especially with melanoma, you're not just removing just the mole.
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Like they're going to make a huge cut to make sure they're getting the depth and the margins that they need.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I would say right off the bat, if someone suspects a melanoma, go to a dermatologist.
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If you're getting a skin check, you know, primary care physicians are okay.
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I'll include myself in that basket.
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We're decent at recognizing things, but nothing replaces a good dermatologist because they can usually on sight and certainly with a biopsy, identify any skin lesions.
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So they're, they're just very, very good at it.
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Even, even by sight.
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And I would recommend, just from having worked, um, years ago with one of the most prominent melanoma researchers at the time, when you go to the doctor, if you think something is suspicious, don't let them just do a shave biopsy, because he was finding that a lot of the dermatologists in the area were doing shave biopsies of something that Came back as melanoma.
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And so, yeah, it's just kind of advocating for yourself and making sure, and if you have a really tiny, tiny mole and it's suspicious and somebody is like, well, it doesn't meet the criteria because it has to be of a certain size, you know, like the eraser head size that we talked about in another episode, I would advocate for you to have it removed and get biopsied because it has to start somewhere.
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Like, it's not like it's going to necessarily magically appear and be the size of an eraser head.
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Yeah.
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And there is, I'm just going to say the A, B, C, D, E of melanoma, right?
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There's the asymmetry and that has to do with the, the shape of it.
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Is it asymmetrical or is it symmetrical?
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There's the border.
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Are they regular and nice and smooth?
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Are they irregular borders where they're a little, either looking cauliflower or a little off?
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Um, the color, you know, color changes, especially if it gets hyperpigmented, but not all melanomas have pigment.
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That can be challenging.
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Some melanomas aren't dark.
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And then.
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The diameter, which you've already mentioned, uh, size of a number two pencil eraser is, is kind of our limit and evolving.
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So I think the one you were just mentioning is if it's evolving, if you have this little tiny thing that suddenly gets bigger or suddenly starts itching, changes shape or color or border, distinctions, then that needs to be looked at.
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And I would go straight to a dermatologist because in my experience there have been Primary care physicians more often do a shave biopsy when they shouldn't have.
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In my private practice, I noticed that then a dermatologist, dermatologists were more likely to take larger margins, even for the first biopsy, if they thought it could be a melanoma.
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So another thing about melanoma, which I don't think people necessarily think about is it's not just the moles that you see.
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I always say melanoma is the skin cancer where the sun don't shine.
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Right?
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I mean, it's going to be the bottom of the foot behind the ear.
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You know, people are like, well, I've never had that area exposed to the sun.
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And that is where melanona Mel Who's What did I just say?
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Melanona
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I think I know
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Who is she?
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And that is where melanoma tends to appear, you know, gluteal fold, um, really like under the fingernails, like unusual places.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So, mucous membranes in the mouth, vaginal area, the anus, could appear anywhere.
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And then one that's fairly unusual, but I feel like we've been seeing more and more of it, at least anecdotally I've been seeing more of it, is a uveal, which is in the eye.
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UVL melanoma, which is a good reason to get your eyes checked every once in a while.
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So, cause any, anyone looking into your eyes should be able to see that early on.
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So there are different types and you're right.
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Melanoma is more likely to be hidden and in areas where the sun don't shine than squamous cell carcinoma or basal cell carcinoma which both more often appear where the sun has done damage.
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And for those who think, oh, well, this will never happen to me, um, it's not just cancer risk.
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I mean, you're risking other things like increased wrinkles.
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And I know that sounds funny, but for some people, premature aging.
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It is more of a concern.
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I mean, it's it's just the way it is.
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Um, you can have other growths appear on your skin as you age, you know, known as age spots or seborrheic keratoses, which are kind of those, like, it looks like it's stuck on.
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It's like this plaque kind of dark or skin colored mass mole.
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That's you see on skin that has been, exposed to a lot of sun.
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Um, there's a variety of why people need to be careful.
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Yeah.
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I think that photo aging is one that.
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We probably, uh, can emphasize, especially to younger folks, because it does, over time, have consequences, just because UVA, in particular, penetrates fairly deep right to the dermis, right below the epidermis, and that can create that rapid aging effect deeper wrinkles,
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So let's talk about UVA versus UVB rays.
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And so I always think of UVB rays as the burning rays and people are like, Oh, well you want to block that.
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No, those are actually the protective rays.
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Tell you, okay, you're getting too much, sun.
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Like you need a, you need to pull back a little.
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And the UVA rays, which are the quote unquote, um, tanning rays are also the ones that can promote things like melanoma.
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because the melanocytes are in the dermis, and only the UVA reaches down that far.
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The UVB doesn't penetrate the skin as deeply, so they're more superficial, but they are, like you said, I don't know, you call them protective, I would say they're more like a sentinel.
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Like, you know that you're burning, because UVB causes that redness, or You know, the dry, red, and even eventually blistering of the skin that's, that's warning you that you're getting too much ultraviolet radiation.
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What did I say?
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Protective or preventive?
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Protective?
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Well, what I meant was that it's a, it's a warning.
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Yeah.
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protective in that it's like a tornado siren, right?
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It's just protecting you from what may be inevitable.
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Yeah.
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It's giving you some kind of idea of what's happening.
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It's the tornado siren of your skin.
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Okay.
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So I found a really interesting statistic, um, when we were prepping for this, you mentioned that there are certain countries where people are more susceptible to skin cancer, melanoma, and one of them is Australia.
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There was a website that talked about five blistering sunburns before the age of 18 increase your risk of skin cancer.
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Five blistering sunburns by the age of 18.
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I'm repeating it because I think every listener can think back to the, to their own history and ask themselves that question.
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Did I have blistering sunburns when I was young?
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And I, I definitely did.
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I remember being a little kid.
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We went to the beach in Southern Florida and my sister and I were playing in the water and sure enough, I had massive blisters on my back.
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And I can remember a few times at the pool as well.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's not like, well, you've only had four.
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You're fine.
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You know, it's not, That cut and dry, but definitely thinking about, um, yeah, your, your history as a kid.
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And, you know, back then I remember like we used Coppertone, right?
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That was the thing that everyone used back then.
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And I don't remember reapplying it.
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Remember?
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Bando Soleil for the central bay, tan, Bando Soleil for the deep darkening tan.
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You know, the whole commercial.
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That's amazing.
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My aunt used band de soleil and I thought that was so glamorous and so elegant.
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I thought it was like the fancy people.
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Sunscreen.
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No, we use the white copper tone with the little puppy and the little child on the label.
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Yeah.
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No, we, we did not use bandosolate.
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We did use other weird things as teenagers.
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Um, you know, baby oil and all of that, but for sunscreen, it was always copper tone and I don't remember reapplying it.
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And that is a really important part.
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I remember the SPF was like two or four.
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Yeah, it was like SPF four, right?
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Yeah.
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There was no SPF 50 back then, so reapplying every two hours is really important when you come out of the water, you're supposed to reapply.
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Yes.
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If you're doing a sport where you're really perspiring a lot, reapply.
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Yeah.
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I think they say it on the label now every couple hours and it's even less on some of them for the, they have special sports, SPF 30 or 50 for the water, and it's supposed to be a slightly waterproof, but they do tell you when you come out to reapply,
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Yeah, I don't know if people really do that though.
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It's kind of like, how much do you actually apply?
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I think people, especially with the ones that are zinc or titanium oxide, I think people tend to apply.
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Less because they don't want to look like, don't know, We're going to have to put in a reference so people are, you know, people know what Spicoli.
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Yeah.
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They don't want to look like Spicoli, but the amount of sunscreen you're supposed to use for an average size person, whatever that may mean is one ounce.
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So we're talking a shot glass of sunscreen.
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That's a lot.
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That's a lot.
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And so at least a quarter of a teaspoon of that is for your face alone,
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From what you told me earlier, some of the tick tock outrage over these 30 and plus sunblockers is what they contain, like other chemical compounds, right?
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Oh yeah.
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So no, what the, what I saw a dermatologist was clarifying is, I think there was a big concern about sunscreens cause cancer.
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And a few years ago, there was a recall for a bunch of sunscreens because they had a contaminant, which was benzene.
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There is the oxy benzone.
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In a lot of sunscreens, that is one of the chemical sunscreens that protects against the UVA rays.
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The problem is that there was a contaminant and we will link in our show notes notes for, you know, people to look up to if they do have a sunscreen at home that they want to know if it was one of the recalls, if they didn't hear about that.
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And it has a whole list of them.
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A lot of them have already expired.
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Um, but there were some that didn't expire until like 2024.
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So.
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Nobody ever throws out their sunscreen.
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I mean, didn't, did you know that sunscreen had an expiration date?
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Uh, no.
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Yeah.
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So sunscreen has an expiration date.
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And this is something else that I thought was really fascinating is that the organic and by organic, I mean, organic chemicals, like the chemical sunscreens, the oxybenzones and the other things that I don't want to try to pronounce those.
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Do expire.
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They do degrade over time.
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So you do want to, if that's the one that you're using, you do want to replace those regularly, but the mineral sunblocks, the titanium dioxide in the zinc oxide, those don't expire.
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So there is an expiration date.
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Cause those are the ones that I buy.
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And I actually almost threw one out the other day because I was like, Oh, it's past its expiration date.
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And then doing research for this episode, I was like, Oh, I don't have to throw it out.
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It's just, you need to have an expiration date on products.
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well that makes sense because those titanium or zinc ones are actual physical blockages of the rays.
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So they're not going anywhere.
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They're metals and they're just there.
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Right.
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They're not sinking into your skin and creating a barrier.
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Right.
00:16:43.778 --> 00:16:48.482
The other thing about the mineral sunblocks is that when you go in the water.
00:16:48.972 --> 00:17:08.354
So there was a study that compared the two different kinds, the organic and the inorganic, inorganic being the mineral sunscreens that compared the two sunscreens in water as a small study, like 22 people or something, and they To see which still was, you know, more effective after an hour and a half.
00:17:08.374 --> 00:17:10.653
And the mineral sunscreens won out.
00:17:10.653 --> 00:17:14.088
So you still need to reapply it it is, it is something that stays on your body.
00:17:14.090 --> 00:17:16.820
Now are they both reef safe?
00:17:16.939 --> 00:17:22.146
The mineral sunscreens or sunblocks are, and that's a really important thing.
00:17:22.156 --> 00:17:32.309
Um, what Tina means by reef safe is there was a big movement and you said in Hawaii, there are certain sunscreens that are not allowed.
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:47.237
And what it is, is the chemicals in these organic sunscreens, by organic I'm not meaning like the same thing as like organic food, um, again, it's just, it's a carbon based sunscreen,
00:17:48.169 --> 00:17:49.509
As opposed to mineral based?
00:17:49.576 --> 00:17:50.626
opposed to mineral based?
00:17:51.148 --> 00:17:52.449
Which is zinc and titanium.
