The Truth About... Skin and Sun Safety

Transcript

WEBVTT

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And that is where melanona Mel.

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Who's What did I just say?

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Melanona.

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I think I know

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Who is she?

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I'm Dr Tina Kaczor and as Leah likes to say I'm the science-y one

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and I'm Dr Leah Sherman and on the cancer inside

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And we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care

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But we're not your doctors

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This is for education entertainment and informational purposes only do not apply any of this information

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without first speaking to your doctor

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The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own

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Welcome to the cancer pod Hey, Tina,

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Hi, Leah.

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I know you don't have the TikTok, but there was this trend going around.

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I don't know if you saw it in the news where I guess a bunch of influencers were talking about sunscreen and how it's bad for you and you shouldn't, they were kind of promoting not using sunscreen.

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Did you hear about that?

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I didn't think so.

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My knowledge of TikTok is pretty, it's pretty narrow.

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I know, but it was, it was making, like, The rounds in the news, because it is concerning, um, something I learned is that Gen Z gets a lot of their health information from social media.

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So I'm assuming from TikTok, what is even more interesting is when I searched to find these anti sunscreen videos, all I found were anti, anti dermatologists and other influencers talking about, Oh, no, no, no.

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This is what.

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You know, the science shows, or this is what is safe, or I'm just promoting this product.

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You know, how they all kind of try to sell you something.

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Anyways, I thought that was really interesting.

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and it kind of drove me to think that we should talk about just sun safety in general.

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Yeah.

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Tis the season.

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is the season.

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Yes.

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Um, where I'm at right now, it's not sunny, but that doesn't really matter when it comes to sun safety.

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No, because in preparing for this, I saw that there's actually higher rates of some skin cancers, like melanoma, in Oregon than there is in Texas.

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That is really surprising.

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but I can see that because at least when I lived in Arizona, nobody went outside in the middle of the summer because it's 450 degrees Fahrenheit.

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Uh, and so in Oregon, people are like, Oh, it's, you know, it's, it's not sunny out.

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So I could, I definitely could see that.

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I also think, I don't know about any more, but I know when I first moved to Portland, there was a lot of tanning booths.

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Hmm.

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Yeah.

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So a lot of people miss their sunshine and their rays, so they go and sit in a tanning bed.

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Right.

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And so I don't know with all of the regulations that, um, went down with tanning beds.

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I don't know if that's necessarily the truth anymore, but I can see that because of the, the overcast weather, people think they're safe.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and we tend to get our sunshine in consecutive days and months, and then we lose all sunshine for several months.

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So there's like, it's not intermittent throughout the year, where I grew up in upstate New York, there was, it was some sunshine in the wintertime as well as the summertime.

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it was parsed out through the 12 months of the year, a little bit more steadily, and here in the Northwest, we get it or we don't.

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Oh,

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you know, my, my own social media that as soon as there's a sunny day, people start posting pictures of their sunburns.

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know, people in the Portland area start doing that.

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So I think that's the thing too, right?

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It's the first sunny day and everyone runs out in shorts and a tank top and.

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absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Or they're gardening and then it was like, they're beet rad.

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So.

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Yeah.

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It might be 55 degrees out, but if the sun is shining, people are wearing shorts.

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Yeah, not me, but, but people do.

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Yes, that is very true.

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Not me.

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I'm still, I'm in a fleece right now.

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Um, so yeah, I think, you know, you mentioned the skin cancer thing, and I think that is something a lot of people, you know, obviously relate to with, sun exposure, and I think that's a really important thing, that some people think in terms of skin cancer, like, Oh, basal cell squamous cell, those are, those are like, you know, I'm putting big finger quotes, easy cancers, they're not necessarily dangerous.

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And that's not necessarily true.

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No.

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Caught early.

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Generally, that is a very good prognosis, caught early squamous cell cancers of the skin and basal cell carcinomas of the skin and even melanoma.

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When it's caught early, in its earliest stages, is very good prognosis because surgically you can remove the whole thing.

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But it can get sneaky sometimes too.

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Oh, absolutely.

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And the thing with these skin cancers is that you're not necessarily just removing, you know, especially with melanoma, you're not just removing just the mole.

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Like they're going to make a huge cut to make sure they're getting the depth and the margins that they need.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I would say right off the bat, if someone suspects a melanoma, go to a dermatologist.

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If you're getting a skin check, you know, primary care physicians are okay.

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I'll include myself in that basket.

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We're decent at recognizing things, but nothing replaces a good dermatologist because they can usually on sight and certainly with a biopsy, identify any skin lesions.

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So they're, they're just very, very good at it.

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Even, even by sight.

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And I would recommend, just from having worked, um, years ago with one of the most prominent melanoma researchers at the time, when you go to the doctor, if you think something is suspicious, don't let them just do a shave biopsy, because he was finding that a lot of the dermatologists in the area were doing shave biopsies of something that Came back as melanoma.

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And so, yeah, it's just kind of advocating for yourself and making sure, and if you have a really tiny, tiny mole and it's suspicious and somebody is like, well, it doesn't meet the criteria because it has to be of a certain size, you know, like the eraser head size that we talked about in another episode, I would advocate for you to have it removed and get biopsied because it has to start somewhere.

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Like, it's not like it's going to necessarily magically appear and be the size of an eraser head.

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Yeah.

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And there is, I'm just going to say the A, B, C, D, E of melanoma, right?

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There's the asymmetry and that has to do with the, the shape of it.

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Is it asymmetrical or is it symmetrical?

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There's the border.

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Are they regular and nice and smooth?

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Are they irregular borders where they're a little, either looking cauliflower or a little off?

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Um, the color, you know, color changes, especially if it gets hyperpigmented, but not all melanomas have pigment.

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That can be challenging.

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Some melanomas aren't dark.

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And then.

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The diameter, which you've already mentioned, uh, size of a number two pencil eraser is, is kind of our limit and evolving.

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So I think the one you were just mentioning is if it's evolving, if you have this little tiny thing that suddenly gets bigger or suddenly starts itching, changes shape or color or border, distinctions, then that needs to be looked at.

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And I would go straight to a dermatologist because in my experience there have been Primary care physicians more often do a shave biopsy when they shouldn't have.

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In my private practice, I noticed that then a dermatologist, dermatologists were more likely to take larger margins, even for the first biopsy, if they thought it could be a melanoma.

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So another thing about melanoma, which I don't think people necessarily think about is it's not just the moles that you see.

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I always say melanoma is the skin cancer where the sun don't shine.

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Right?

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I mean, it's going to be the bottom of the foot behind the ear.

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You know, people are like, well, I've never had that area exposed to the sun.

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And that is where melanona Mel Who's What did I just say?

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Melanona

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I think I know

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Who is she?

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And that is where melanoma tends to appear, you know, gluteal fold, um, really like under the fingernails, like unusual places.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So, mucous membranes in the mouth, vaginal area, the anus, could appear anywhere.

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And then one that's fairly unusual, but I feel like we've been seeing more and more of it, at least anecdotally I've been seeing more of it, is a uveal, which is in the eye.

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UVL melanoma, which is a good reason to get your eyes checked every once in a while.

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So, cause any, anyone looking into your eyes should be able to see that early on.

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So there are different types and you're right.

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Melanoma is more likely to be hidden and in areas where the sun don't shine than squamous cell carcinoma or basal cell carcinoma which both more often appear where the sun has done damage.

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And for those who think, oh, well, this will never happen to me, um, it's not just cancer risk.

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I mean, you're risking other things like increased wrinkles.

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And I know that sounds funny, but for some people, premature aging.

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It is more of a concern.

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I mean, it's it's just the way it is.

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Um, you can have other growths appear on your skin as you age, you know, known as age spots or seborrheic keratoses, which are kind of those, like, it looks like it's stuck on.

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It's like this plaque kind of dark or skin colored mass mole.

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That's you see on skin that has been, exposed to a lot of sun.

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Um, there's a variety of why people need to be careful.

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Yeah.

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I think that photo aging is one that.

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We probably, uh, can emphasize, especially to younger folks, because it does, over time, have consequences, just because UVA, in particular, penetrates fairly deep right to the dermis, right below the epidermis, and that can create that rapid aging effect deeper wrinkles,

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So let's talk about UVA versus UVB rays.

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And so I always think of UVB rays as the burning rays and people are like, Oh, well you want to block that.

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No, those are actually the protective rays.

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Tell you, okay, you're getting too much, sun.

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Like you need a, you need to pull back a little.

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And the UVA rays, which are the quote unquote, um, tanning rays are also the ones that can promote things like melanoma.

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because the melanocytes are in the dermis, and only the UVA reaches down that far.

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The UVB doesn't penetrate the skin as deeply, so they're more superficial, but they are, like you said, I don't know, you call them protective, I would say they're more like a sentinel.

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Like, you know that you're burning, because UVB causes that redness, or You know, the dry, red, and even eventually blistering of the skin that's, that's warning you that you're getting too much ultraviolet radiation.

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What did I say?

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Protective or preventive?

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Protective?

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Well, what I meant was that it's a, it's a warning.

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Yeah.

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protective in that it's like a tornado siren, right?

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It's just protecting you from what may be inevitable.

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Yeah.

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It's giving you some kind of idea of what's happening.

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It's the tornado siren of your skin.

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Okay.

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So I found a really interesting statistic, um, when we were prepping for this, you mentioned that there are certain countries where people are more susceptible to skin cancer, melanoma, and one of them is Australia.

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There was a website that talked about five blistering sunburns before the age of 18 increase your risk of skin cancer.

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Five blistering sunburns by the age of 18.

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I'm repeating it because I think every listener can think back to the, to their own history and ask themselves that question.

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Did I have blistering sunburns when I was young?

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And I, I definitely did.

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I remember being a little kid.

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We went to the beach in Southern Florida and my sister and I were playing in the water and sure enough, I had massive blisters on my back.

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And I can remember a few times at the pool as well.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's not like, well, you've only had four.

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You're fine.

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You know, it's not, That cut and dry, but definitely thinking about, um, yeah, your, your history as a kid.

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And, you know, back then I remember like we used Coppertone, right?

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That was the thing that everyone used back then.

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And I don't remember reapplying it.

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Remember?

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Bando Soleil for the central bay, tan, Bando Soleil for the deep darkening tan.

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You know, the whole commercial.

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That's amazing.

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My aunt used band de soleil and I thought that was so glamorous and so elegant.

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I thought it was like the fancy people.

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Sunscreen.

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No, we use the white copper tone with the little puppy and the little child on the label.

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Yeah.

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No, we, we did not use bandosolate.

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We did use other weird things as teenagers.

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Um, you know, baby oil and all of that, but for sunscreen, it was always copper tone and I don't remember reapplying it.

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And that is a really important part.

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I remember the SPF was like two or four.

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Yeah, it was like SPF four, right?

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Yeah.

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There was no SPF 50 back then, so reapplying every two hours is really important when you come out of the water, you're supposed to reapply.

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Yes.

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If you're doing a sport where you're really perspiring a lot, reapply.

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Yeah.

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I think they say it on the label now every couple hours and it's even less on some of them for the, they have special sports, SPF 30 or 50 for the water, and it's supposed to be a slightly waterproof, but they do tell you when you come out to reapply,

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Yeah, I don't know if people really do that though.

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It's kind of like, how much do you actually apply?

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I think people, especially with the ones that are zinc or titanium oxide, I think people tend to apply.

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Less because they don't want to look like, don't know, We're going to have to put in a reference so people are, you know, people know what Spicoli.

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Yeah.

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They don't want to look like Spicoli, but the amount of sunscreen you're supposed to use for an average size person, whatever that may mean is one ounce.

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So we're talking a shot glass of sunscreen.

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That's a lot.

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That's a lot.

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And so at least a quarter of a teaspoon of that is for your face alone,

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From what you told me earlier, some of the tick tock outrage over these 30 and plus sunblockers is what they contain, like other chemical compounds, right?

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Oh yeah.

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So no, what the, what I saw a dermatologist was clarifying is, I think there was a big concern about sunscreens cause cancer.

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And a few years ago, there was a recall for a bunch of sunscreens because they had a contaminant, which was benzene.

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There is the oxy benzone.

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In a lot of sunscreens, that is one of the chemical sunscreens that protects against the UVA rays.

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The problem is that there was a contaminant and we will link in our show notes notes for, you know, people to look up to if they do have a sunscreen at home that they want to know if it was one of the recalls, if they didn't hear about that.

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And it has a whole list of them.

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A lot of them have already expired.

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Um, but there were some that didn't expire until like 2024.

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So.

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Nobody ever throws out their sunscreen.

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I mean, didn't, did you know that sunscreen had an expiration date?

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Uh, no.

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Yeah.

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So sunscreen has an expiration date.

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And this is something else that I thought was really fascinating is that the organic and by organic, I mean, organic chemicals, like the chemical sunscreens, the oxybenzones and the other things that I don't want to try to pronounce those.

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Do expire.

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They do degrade over time.

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So you do want to, if that's the one that you're using, you do want to replace those regularly, but the mineral sunblocks, the titanium dioxide in the zinc oxide, those don't expire.

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So there is an expiration date.

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Cause those are the ones that I buy.

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And I actually almost threw one out the other day because I was like, Oh, it's past its expiration date.

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And then doing research for this episode, I was like, Oh, I don't have to throw it out.

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It's just, you need to have an expiration date on products.

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well that makes sense because those titanium or zinc ones are actual physical blockages of the rays.

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So they're not going anywhere.

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They're metals and they're just there.

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Right.

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They're not sinking into your skin and creating a barrier.

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Right.

00:16:43.778 --> 00:16:48.482
The other thing about the mineral sunblocks is that when you go in the water.

00:16:48.972 --> 00:17:08.354
So there was a study that compared the two different kinds, the organic and the inorganic, inorganic being the mineral sunscreens that compared the two sunscreens in water as a small study, like 22 people or something, and they To see which still was, you know, more effective after an hour and a half.

00:17:08.374 --> 00:17:10.653
And the mineral sunscreens won out.

00:17:10.653 --> 00:17:14.088
So you still need to reapply it it is, it is something that stays on your body.

00:17:14.090 --> 00:17:16.820
Now are they both reef safe?

00:17:16.939 --> 00:17:22.146
The mineral sunscreens or sunblocks are, and that's a really important thing.

00:17:22.156 --> 00:17:32.309
Um, what Tina means by reef safe is there was a big movement and you said in Hawaii, there are certain sunscreens that are not allowed.

00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:47.237
And what it is, is the chemicals in these organic sunscreens, by organic I'm not meaning like the same thing as like organic food, um, again, it's just, it's a carbon based sunscreen,

00:17:48.169 --> 00:17:49.509
As opposed to mineral based?

00:17:49.576 --> 00:17:50.626
opposed to mineral based?

00:17:51.148 --> 00:17:52.449
Which is zinc and titanium.

00:17:52.608 --> 00:17:52.888
Okay.

00:17:53.067 --> 00:17:53.426
right?

00:17:53.666 --> 00:17:54.027
Yeah.

00:17:54.086 --> 00:17:55.307
No, thanks for clarifying.

00:17:56.037 --> 00:18:00.402
Um, Those can affect the fertility of fish.

00:18:00.412 --> 00:18:02.602
they can kill coral reefs.

00:18:02.632 --> 00:18:04.031
They have killed coral reefs.

00:18:04.531 --> 00:18:07.501
Um, they have been found in tissues of dolphins.

00:18:07.811 --> 00:18:09.451
I mean, the list goes on again.

00:18:09.451 --> 00:18:11.221
We could put a link for that in it.

00:18:11.231 --> 00:18:20.375
The link is through, um, NOAA, which is the, the weather people, not try to remember what NOAA stands for, National something association, oceanic,

00:18:20.991 --> 00:18:21.882
oceanic, Atmospheric.

00:18:23.414 --> 00:18:23.894
something.

00:18:24.444 --> 00:18:24.884
Anyways,

00:18:26.612 --> 00:18:45.480
Yeah, this consequence is really visible in Hawaii, which is why so many, I don't know if it's all the, the entire state of Hawaii, but there are definitely regions where you can, well, they encourage you, they can't stop anyone from doing anything, but they highly encourage you to put on reef safe sunscreens because it's visible.

00:18:45.510 --> 00:18:50.451
There's so many people just doing snorkeling, you know, so many visitors go in and snorkel that.

00:18:51.076 --> 00:18:57.915
Close to the shore, you can see the consequences of all the years of people going in with sunscreens that were killing the coral.

00:18:58.306 --> 00:19:00.016
And killing a lot of the, the life.

00:19:00.026 --> 00:19:01.986
So there's like dead zones almost.

00:19:02.101 --> 00:19:08.217
as opposed to if you go farther out where people aren't so heavily populating the area, you can see how lush the life is underneath.

00:19:08.227 --> 00:19:09.227
So, yeah.

00:19:09.376 --> 00:19:11.126
So it's great that they, that they did that.

00:19:11.126 --> 00:19:18.884
They finally took that step because this has been kind of an issue behind the scenes for a couple of decades, a few decades, I'm sure, since these sunscreens came out.

00:19:18.884 --> 00:19:21.211
So it's good that they're proactively.

00:19:21.506 --> 00:19:24.046
Changing what people, it's all the same.

00:19:24.046 --> 00:19:26.215
I mean, they work just as well as ones that kill the reefs.

00:19:26.276 --> 00:19:27.765
So why not save the reefs?

00:19:27.904 --> 00:19:29.384
I mean, it's not, it's kind of a no brainer.

00:19:29.515 --> 00:19:35.858
in Europe, they've done more testing on different types of sun filters and they do have coral reef safe, products.

00:19:35.858 --> 00:19:37.358
And so they are more expensive.

00:19:37.808 --> 00:19:39.169
You're ordering them from overseas.

00:19:39.169 --> 00:19:40.618
You're going to pay for shipping and all of that.

00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:46.515
And does the environmental working group have a list of safer brands?

00:19:46.731 --> 00:19:57.902
So yeah, the environmental working group has a cosmetic database where they list the different products and they list the ingredients and there's a different rating based on all of the ingredients.

00:19:57.922 --> 00:20:01.662
And I think it can be a little alarming to some people.

00:20:01.922 --> 00:20:04.811
Um, you'll see something that has a little green, like.

00:20:05.416 --> 00:20:15.186
Thumbs up kind of label, and it'll still say that this contains ingredients that might increase your risk of cancer or allergies or anything like that.

00:20:15.186 --> 00:20:17.237
But it's it's all just, information.

00:20:17.517 --> 00:20:25.217
It's probably at higher doses or used in another capacity that that might be a chemical or a compound that is dangerous for you.

00:20:25.227 --> 00:20:29.346
So I don't like people to think of the environmental working group.

00:20:29.856 --> 00:20:33.211
website Um, I don't see it as like a gospel, it's just more of a guide.

00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:48.602
so I'm, I'm comfortable with something that has a three rating and the three rating may not necessarily be a green rating, but I think it's safe for um, you know, just for everyday appropriate use.

00:20:48.808 --> 00:20:51.239
what's their scale when you say three rating on there?

00:20:51.902 --> 00:20:55.991
So the scale is from one to ten, one being best, ten being worst.

00:20:56.281 --> 00:21:05.527
So the, the green is One and two, and then the yellow, which is kind of the caution is the three to six.

00:21:05.527 --> 00:21:14.166
And so that's why I like I'm comfortable using something that's three or four, as long as I'm using it appropriately and I'm not going in excess and it depends on what the chemicals are.

00:21:14.436 --> 00:21:17.819
and then when you get to seven, eight, nine and ten, those are the worst.

00:21:18.301 --> 00:21:20.551
Okay, so I'll give you my take.

00:21:20.821 --> 00:21:23.951
'cause what we haven't talked about is just blocking the sun.

00:21:24.102 --> 00:21:31.255
So I have a, a bevy of straw hats, and I wear them, especially if I'm just working outside and I don't care what I look like.

00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.865
I have a nice big, broad straw hat for that.

00:21:34.194 --> 00:21:41.045
I've got a couple of what I would consider decent looking, public facing, straw hats, And then, um.

00:21:41.457 --> 00:21:42.396
I cover up.

00:21:42.487 --> 00:21:46.076
you know, you can wear long sleeves that are actually made for UV.

00:21:46.366 --> 00:21:51.489
So if you're going to be out like kayaking or something like that, cover yourself up with something light.

00:21:51.788 --> 00:21:55.318
Um, and it doesn't keep you warmer if you have the right material and it's lightweight.

00:21:55.868 --> 00:22:02.628
And then I do use the sunscreens because I am just vain enough to not really want photo aging on my face.

00:22:03.118 --> 00:22:04.848
Um, so I'll use them more on my face.

00:22:04.878 --> 00:22:10.251
And don't forget your ears Cause your ears are a common place for various skin cancers to happen.

00:22:10.932 --> 00:22:13.102
Squamous cell and basal cell as you age, especially.

00:22:13.102 --> 00:22:19.011
So the top of your nose, top of your ears and your, you know, which is called décollage,

00:22:19.675 --> 00:22:20.455
Well, that's your neck.

00:22:20.465 --> 00:22:25.115
But then the, what is it, décolletage, something, the upper chest.

00:22:25.238 --> 00:22:26.577
It's some French word we can't say.

00:22:26.577 --> 00:22:26.877
I don't know

00:22:26.877 --> 00:22:42.441
That's right, we can look it up, but we're not going to, um, so yeah, so, so definitely avoiding the sun, whether it's covering up or even just avoiding those prime sun hours, depending on where you live, um, usually it's like 10 a.

00:22:42.441 --> 00:22:42.631
m.

00:22:42.631 --> 00:22:43.230
to 4 p.

00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:43.451
m.

00:22:43.713 --> 00:22:45.973
Back in the day, those were the tanning hours

00:22:46.528 --> 00:22:50.387
Duck away for the prime tanning hours or find, yeah, just find some shade.

00:22:50.438 --> 00:22:50.948
Really?

00:22:51.203 --> 00:22:52.223
Just find some shade.

00:22:52.273 --> 00:22:56.493
Uh, I've seen people even carrying umbrellas, which I think is just so cool.

00:22:56.693 --> 00:22:59.394
Like carrying a parasol to protect yourself from the sun.

00:22:59.416 --> 00:23:00.436
It's a great idea.

00:23:01.166 --> 00:23:03.076
It's used to be done back in the day.

00:23:03.086 --> 00:23:04.106
Let's bring it back.

00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:04.640
Yeah.

00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:06.417
A true Oregonians don't own them though.

00:23:06.738 --> 00:23:13.377
I've seen people in the summer in Oregon, in Portland, carrying umbrellas more than I do see them using it for rain.

00:23:13.377 --> 00:23:14.644
Yeah, no, totally.

00:23:14.663 --> 00:23:15.304
that's true.

00:23:15.933 --> 00:23:16.253
Yeah.

00:23:16.253 --> 00:23:19.851
No, they're, what I don't understand are baseball caps because.

00:23:20.855 --> 00:23:24.326
I have a few baseball caps that I've gotten as gifts.

00:23:24.393 --> 00:23:25.913
they're horrible with blocking the sun.

00:23:25.923 --> 00:23:27.242
They're not about blocking the sun.

00:23:27.597 --> 00:23:28.718
Just for your eyes.

00:23:29.212 --> 00:23:29.972
Just for your eyes.

00:23:30.192 --> 00:23:36.853
What I like are, I have seen some people wearing these giant visors, you know, the visor, like, you know, the tennis

00:23:36.993 --> 00:23:37.413
Oh yeah.

00:23:37.885 --> 00:23:41.261
Chrissy Everett kind of, you know, visor thing, but they're huge.

00:23:41.955 --> 00:23:43.006
I kind of like those.

00:23:43.555 --> 00:23:43.924
Yeah.

00:23:43.934 --> 00:23:44.964
I wouldn't be caught dead in one

00:23:45.271 --> 00:23:48.311
I might, I mean, I might be caught dead or alive wearing one of them.

00:23:49.281 --> 00:23:49.362
Oh.

00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.450
That's not my look.

00:23:51.493 --> 00:24:02.333
if I do wear a ball cap out there, it's mostly because, I don't have prescriptive sunglasses, so I want to block the sun there and I'll put sunscreen on my face and neck and ears and stuff, cause I know it's not really protecting me.

00:24:02.884 --> 00:24:03.153
Okay.

00:24:03.153 --> 00:24:08.664
So when you say sunscreen, do you mean like the organic sunscreen or the inorganic with the zinc

00:24:08.718 --> 00:24:11.097
I tend to use the inorganic zinc or titanium.

00:24:11.250 --> 00:24:11.445
Okay.

00:24:11.445 --> 00:24:16.880
And in my training, I was always like encouraged to call those sun block because they are blocking the skin.

00:24:17.817 --> 00:24:18.417
Yes.

00:24:18.771 --> 00:24:20.711
yeah, it's a physical barrier to the rays.

00:24:20.983 --> 00:24:22.094
it's a physical barrier.

00:24:22.354 --> 00:24:37.582
another time I think that people need to be really careful with the sun is driving, because they can take pictures, to show photo aging and typically one person's like the side of their face is More aged than the other side.

00:24:37.582 --> 00:24:40.432
I see that on myself and that's the driver's side.

00:24:40.615 --> 00:24:51.950
So you're We're windows aren't protecting you from these rays and so make sure that you use an appropriate amount of the sunblock when you're driving

00:24:52.083 --> 00:24:52.472
Yeah.

00:24:53.083 --> 00:25:03.680
And you know, we were talking about this before we got on here and, and, the official party line out there looks to me like they talk about tanning almost as an equivalent to burning.

00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:05.990
And I think of them as two totally different things.

00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:13.601
When you get a sunburn, no matter where you get it, how you get it, whether you have sunscreen on or not, it's inflammatory.

00:25:13.621 --> 00:25:18.931
It's damaging literally, and it creates an inflammatory state in the, in the skin.

00:25:19.621 --> 00:25:23.961
And so to me, doing that repeatedly and certainly doing it at an early age.

00:25:24.256 --> 00:25:32.625
Um, and more severely, all of those things are going to be additive in your risk for various skin cancers, whether it's melanoma or basal cell or squamous cell.

00:25:32.875 --> 00:25:49.723
I think of that very different than, for example, you go out a lot and you don't burn and you tan and your skin gets darker, whatever your base you start with, um, if you are someone who does tan and can do it without burning, right?

00:25:49.773 --> 00:25:52.644
you remember that when we were young, we do that too, that everyone would go out and get a base.

00:25:53.003 --> 00:25:55.564
Burn so that the rest of the tanning was faster.

00:25:56.044 --> 00:25:56.624
Not that.

00:25:56.653 --> 00:25:57.624
I'm saying never burn.

00:25:57.983 --> 00:26:10.146
Burning is not good, but slowly increasing your pigmentation seems to be a protective thing because darker skin is more protected than lighter skin as far as Skin cancers go.

00:26:10.596 --> 00:26:11.467
It's not impossible.

00:26:11.467 --> 00:26:12.326
It's just more protected.

00:26:12.709 --> 00:26:30.212
Well, there are, there are people who really cannot have any sun exposure and there is a chart that again, we can put in the show notes, the link to that talks about the types of skin you know, it's based on eye color and skin color and hair color and what your exposure is.

00:26:30.492 --> 00:26:43.347
To the sun can be, and it's typically the sun, you know, unprotected and it's anywhere from five minutes to 20 minutes is what can be, you know, there are some people who can look at a picture of a sun and get a sunburn.

00:26:43.958 --> 00:26:45.728
You know, I mean, they're that sensitive.

00:26:45.728 --> 00:26:49.508
I'm being, I'm being a little silly here, but you know, they're, they are that sensitive.

00:26:49.538 --> 00:26:54.758
And so if you are, I mean, I think these people know who they are, right?

00:26:54.798 --> 00:26:58.643
They, they know how sensitive they are and they typically try to avoid the sun.

00:26:58.643 --> 00:26:58.708
Yeah.

00:26:59.191 --> 00:27:08.188
I don't recommend somebody like that going out with any, without any sort of sun protection, whether it is a sunblock or clothing and a hat.

00:27:08.740 --> 00:27:11.941
Yes, I think fair skinned people know who they are though.

00:27:12.035 --> 00:27:13.575
I mean they know that they burn fast

00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:17.009
Yeah, but you know, you get in a, you know, I think of spring break, right?

00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.440
Like spring break in high school and everybody came back burned.

00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:28.502
Even the fair redheads, you know, were burned to a crisp because you're outside and you're partying and you're having a great time and you're young.

00:27:28.866 --> 00:27:31.257
Oh yeah, yeah, so I can think of a vacation.

00:27:31.711 --> 00:27:37.832
I took with my partner and we were at the pool and there was a, a woman who was sleeping, passed out.

00:27:37.852 --> 00:27:43.011
I'm not sure, but let's just say the redness of her skin hurt to just look at it.

00:27:43.011 --> 00:27:44.352
And I was like, I got to wake her up.

00:27:44.352 --> 00:27:47.251
I got to, someone's got to tell her she's got to get out of the sun.

00:27:47.412 --> 00:27:48.811
She's just sitting there baking more and more.

00:27:48.811 --> 00:27:52.875
And I was like, oh my God, it it was going to be so painful once she was either sober or awake.

00:27:52.875 --> 00:27:53.494
I'm not sure.

00:27:54.096 --> 00:27:58.970
You just want to move an umbrella over her and like cover with like a wet towel,

00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.536
I was kind of glancing at the people she was with like, uh, hello, No one's doing anything.

00:28:03.695 --> 00:28:12.056
Oh, I remember years ago being at a pool in Vegas and, you know, you start looking at everybody and their, you know, their, their skin.

00:28:12.915 --> 00:28:14.955
I, I'm always looking at people's skin.

00:28:15.336 --> 00:28:16.155
I'm not judging.

00:28:16.165 --> 00:28:16.826
I'm just looking.

00:28:17.236 --> 00:28:21.165
And somebody had on the bottom of their foot, the scariest looking mole.

00:28:21.185 --> 00:28:23.695
And I just remember staring at that from across the pool.

00:28:23.695 --> 00:28:28.165
Maybe it was a birthmark, but I just remember thinking like, Ooh, I hope they know what that is.

00:28:28.165 --> 00:28:29.226
I hope they get that checked out.

00:28:39.835 --> 00:28:54.065
You know, when we talk about various regions and different skin types and stuff, we can see this in the stats, the differences in melanoma rates, especially, and New Zealand and Australia have extremely high rates of skin cancer.

00:28:54.805 --> 00:28:56.055
And there's a couple reasons.

00:28:56.500 --> 00:29:13.194
So people who are from there or live there will have higher rates of Um, various skin cancers, including melanoma, and it has to do with the fact that when they have their summer, it's actually more UV coming through to them than when the northern hemisphere has its summer.

00:29:13.734 --> 00:29:16.815
And so there's actually a higher UV.

00:29:17.089 --> 00:29:22.500