Transcript
WEBVTT
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If I knew the cure for cancer, I wouldn't be selling it.
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I would be handing it out on the corner to everybody.
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Oh, I told people I would have a giant sanatorium on a hill where you check in the front door with cancer and, whatever it takes, we get rid of it, and you check out the back door without it, like if I knew how to cure cancer, I would just create a facility to do just that, like a factory, just cranking them in, cranking them out.
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Yeah, just come on in the front door, we'll cure you, we'll send you home out the back door.
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I'm Dr Tina Keizer and, as Lea likes to say, I'm the sciencey one, and I'm Dr Lea Sherman and I'm the Cancer Insider and we're two naturopathic doctors who practice integrative cancer care, but we're not your doctors.
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This is for education, entertainment and informational purposes only.
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Do not apply any of this information without first speaking to your doctor.
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The views and opinions expressed on this podcast by the hosts and their guests are solely their own.
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Welcome to the Cancer Pod.
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Hey, lea, did you see the eight myths about cancer that was put out by the American Society of Clinical Oncology?
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Only because you told me to, because that's what we're talking about today.
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I hadn't seen it beforehand, but I did do a search to find it and apparently there are also 10 myths and 12 myths, 15 myths, I don't know.
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So there are a lot of myths out there about cancer.
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My thought is, since they're myths, it's almost an indefinite number, because you could just make them up.
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Oh totally.
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48 myths about cancer and just Just name random things.
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Yeah, yeah, you grew up with a dog.
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You grew up without a dog.
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You did this, you did that and since it's a myth, there's no limit.
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Yeah like remember the spider legs in Bubblicious?
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That was like a urban myth.
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No, I do not.
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These aren't really urban myths.
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Oh yeah, when I was a kid, that Bubblishus bulgum, apparently there were spider legs in it, which was never true.
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I never saw anything that said it wasn't.
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We'll never know.
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Yeah.
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So these myths, they're kind of interesting because some of them, I think, are like old school thought.
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Mm-hmm.
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But I guess people don't really know.
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We know stuff because this is what we do, and there are people out there who probably still believe the things Like remember I don't know, I'm old enough to remember when people would talk about cancer they would whisper it you didn't talk about cancer.
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It was like so-and-so's grandma died from cancer.
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And so I think the more that people are talking about cancer and it's more out there, it's so, unfortunately, so commonplace that a lot of these myths aren't so mythical.
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Yeah, and when anything is reduced to one line, like the myths we go through by ASCO are found on a PDF that they recommend people look at.
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When anything is reduced to one line, it's often an oversimplification, so that I may or may not agree with every myth.
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Like some of these myths, I was like well, can you really call that a myth?
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There is some truism to that.
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Right, it's like a headline.
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Right, it's like we're just trying to grab you.
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Yes, yes, and of course, very little is completely black and white.
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I mean, it really is a massive gray area and a lot of things depend on context, and so reducing anything to a list is tough to do, unless it's like blatant myths.
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Cancer was created by aliens to control us Like that Exactly.
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Now, that's a myth, is it?
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Show me the evidence to prove otherwise.
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I did my own research.
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Tina, that's a whole different show.
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Aliens and Cancer.
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Let's just go to the first.
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What's the first myth?
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All right.
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The first myth is cancer is contagious.
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Now, if you're a veterinarian and you see animals, this is true of some cancers in the animal kingdom, is it really?
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Yeah, yeah, some of them are contagious, but we won't talk about that.
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Wait, hold on, we're going to have to talk about this in the sidebar.
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I'm really curious.
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Look up Tasmanian Devil on Google.
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But in people, cancer itself is not contagious.
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But we should say what ASCO says, because I do agree with ASCO on this one Cancer is not contagious, but some of the organisms that give you a higher risk of developing cancers are contagious, right?
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And if you have had exposure to one of these organisms, it's not 100% guaranteed that you're going to get cancer.
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No, just raises your risk of developing it.
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So the classic example is human papilloma virus, better known as HPV.
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Hpv virus has been known to be underlying cause for squamous cell cancers, which is probably most well known as cervical cancer, but that includes anal cancers.
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It includes some throat cancers.
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Anywhere there's squamous cells in the body, HPV can induce a cancer and, like you just said, the presence of HPV doesn't do it.
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There's different types of HPV.
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They number them, so there's 16, 33, 18, et cetera.
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Some of those are more cancer causing than others.
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Pap smears are a classic example of trying to find HPV and remove pre-cancerous lesions.
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They'll test If there's HPV present, they'll then subtype it and say is it any of the most high risk forms of HPV?
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Now, the HPV is contagious right through sexual contact in that case, but the cancer is not the cancer itself isn't Right, right and that's like.
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So liver cancer one of the possible causes of liver cancer is the hepatitis virus and it's hepatitis B and C, and there is a vaccine for B, there's nothing for C.
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The cool thing, the cool thing, the cool thing about hepatitis C is now there are treatments you can get that it's a really, really great, effective treatment.
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So hepatitis A, which is the one that you get from food, typically that's not implicated in developing liver cancer.
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Right, and so, while the virus is, whether it's A, B or C, while those can be transmitted between people in various ways, whether it's through food or through blood products or sexual contact, however it's transmitted between people, that's contagious, raises the risk of that liver cancer, but the liver cancer is not contagious.
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Yeah, so the myth itself, cancer itself is not contagious.
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But the?
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What do you call it?
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Starting point, what would you call it?
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The catalyst, the?
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Is that you like that word?
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You're nodding, I'll buy that.
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Okay, so the catalyst for certain cancers may be contagious, like H pylori, right, the bacteria that is resides in one stomach.
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That can potentially lead to stomach cancer.
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But there are a bunch of people that have H pylori that are never going to get stomach cancer.
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Exactly.
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All right, so we agree with them.
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Cancer is not contagious.
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It's not contagious.
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Well, you agree with ASCO.
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Okay, let's go to the second one.
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Here's the myth If you have a family history of cancer, you will get it too.
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It depends, right?
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I mean, if you have a family history of cancer and it's something that is because it's genetic, you may have an increased risk and appropriate screenings would be advised.
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But you're not even guaranteed.
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Even if somebody tests positive for, let's say, the barocca gene, which increases your risk of several different kinds of cancer, most popularly breast cancer, it doesn't mean that you're going to get cancer.
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Agreed.
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Yeah, so what they're saying is the myth that people believe is, if your family has a history of cancer, you will get it too.
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That's what they're calling a myth.
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Again, this is one of those.
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How do you even begin to make a blanket statement?
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Because, in the case you're stating with barocca, you might have an 80% chance of having breast cancer if you have a certain baraca mutation, or even 60 or 65% for ovarian with certain baraca mutations, but it's not 100%.
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So you can't make a statement that says you will get it too, because that means two or four out of 10 won't get it, even though they carry a very high risk gene for it.
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Yeah, and so I think that's where naturopathic and integrative oncology come into play, in that there are things that somebody can do to help to further reduce their risk.
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But even that's not a guarantee, because we're just reducing the risk, we're not preventing.
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Right, and you and Asko agree on that, because that's exactly what they write.
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Under that myth they're said things like exercising, limiting alcohol and avoiding tobacco products and maintaining a normal weight All of those will reduce your risk, regardless of your family history.
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So that's an interesting one.
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I think the thing with you and me is we individualize treatment, so it's hard to make any blanket statements anyways, because we're always sitting with an individual and looking at that person's risk like what is it?
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Is it genetic?
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Is it other risk factors that they're carrying?
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Yeah, and I would add reducing stress yeah, important for so many reasons.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So it is a myth.
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If you have a family history of cancer, you will get it too.
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Agreed, it's a myth and the individual scenario will dictate how strong that myth is or how much to dismiss that idea.
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Right.
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Yeah, so the next one is cancer thrives on sugar.
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This is why I wanted to do this list.
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Really, we already talked about this.
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We have a whole episode on this.
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I know, but what if someone didn't hear the whole episode on sugar?
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Well, listen to today's episode all the way to the end and then go back and listen to.
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I don't remember what episode it was, it wasn't that long ago, but go back, you'll see it.
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It says it's one of our myth-busting episodes.
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Does sugar cause cancer?
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Yeah, so okay, let's do a quick summary of this.
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Okay, basically, asco says this is a myth.
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Cancer thrives on sugar.
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Fact this is according to ASCO, there's no conclusive evidence that proves eating sugar will make cancer grow and spread more quickly.
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All cells in the body healthy and cancer cells depend on sugar to grow and function.
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No proof that eating sugar will speed up the growth of cancer or that cutting out sugar completely will slow down its growth.
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And then it goes on to say this doesn't mean you should eat a high sugar diet.
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Too many calories from sugars linked to weight gain, obesity, diabetes and those increase the risk of developing cancer and other health problems.
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So that is the ASCO party line.
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I pretty much agree with that.
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I would still say in my observation, regardless of studies, when people keep their blood glucose on the lower end, they do better, and maybe that has to do with reducing inflammation and this is with cancer present.
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These are people who have metastatic cancer or they're going through treatment.
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But if you can keep the blood glucose on a lower end and still feel fine, of course you don't want to tank your glucose to the point where you don't feel well.
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To me, I mean, my best outcomes over the years have been in patients who are capable of doing that and made that a reflection of an overall system that works better.
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Or maybe it's a coincidence, but I can just tell you that's my observation.
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Yeah, I mean it could be a combination of all the other things that you are doing with those patients.
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But if somebody has done a lot to reduce, I'm going to talk about it being like refined sugars.
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I'm not talking about fruit.
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I've had patients who are like I avoid all sugar and I don't eat any fruit.
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So, yeah, I would just say avoiding those refined sugars.
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But then if you have something every once in a while I mean, we've talked about the effect of dysregulated blood sugar on side effects like fatigue and hot flashes.
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So it's not necessarily like I went to a birthday party, I ate a piece of birthday cake and now I have cancer spread throughout my body.
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That's not how it works, right?
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No, you know, if all you're doing is eating packaged processed sweets and maybe you're nauseated and that's all that makes you feel better, you know, talk with someone, talk with a professional who can find alternatives that might provide you with a little bit more nutrition.
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And how do you control your blood sugar Right?
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So I'm always about the glucose, because the cells in the body have no idea what you put in your mouth.
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Whether you just had a glass of apple cider or a glass of Coca-Cola, if the amount of sugar is very similar, the cells in your body don't know the difference.
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My point is just because it's a natural sugar doesn't mean it's always a pass.
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It has to do with how your body handles sugar.
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Like can you have apple cider and not have blood glucose go really high?
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Well, and that's where it comes into.
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Like, what are you having that with Right?
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Another thing I have said before on the show and I say to my patients is have sugar with a meal, not as a meal.
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So waking up in the morning having a glass of orange juice as your breakfast, that's not, I mean, that's not good for anybody.
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No, that's a lot of sugar.
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There's no fiber, fat or protein to help your body to slow down that sugar metabolism.
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So wasn't it?
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That was that the episode where we came up with the term naked carbs?
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Oh, I don't remember.
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No, I'm pretty sure you declared it to.
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You know, one of your next t-shirts, or something.
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It could have been this memory.
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This memory isn't what it used to be.
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I'll go with it.
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Your memory is good, We'll go with it.
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Yeah, naked carbs.
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I remember when I came up with that.
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Oh yeah, no naked carbs.
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Hashtag trademark.
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Ok, let's move on.
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Next one you read it OK.
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The next myth Cancer treatment is usually worse than the disease.
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Leia.
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Inserting crickets chirping.
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I will say, as someone who was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer and really had no symptoms other than a lump, yeah, my chemo sucked.
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And so, at the stage cancer that I was diagnosed, yeah, the treatment was bad.
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Would I not do it if I were to do it again?
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No, I'd still do the treatment.
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But and I've heard this from other people too patients who maybe just had surgery for their cancer I'm not gonna say just had surgery, surgery is a big deal but patient whose only treatment was surgery, the recovery time can feel a lot worse than one felt possibly before the cancer was removed.
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Same with radiation.
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You know like it's.
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I like what Asco says.
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This is what they say.
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Although cancer treatments such as chemotherapy and radiation can cause unpleasant and sometimes serious side effects, recent advances have resulted in many drugs and radiation treatments that have more manageable side effects.
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That is true, but there still are old school treatments being used and not everyone responds to the anti nausea medications that they're prescribed.
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Not everyone has access to somebody who practices integrative oncology and can help to manage the side effects.
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Right, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of one person in particular who was diagnosed with a brain tumor and had it removed with surgery and was having so many problems after surgery and they're just like I feel worse, mm, hmm, but at the same time, if your treatment is extending your life, yeah, I think you bring up a good point.
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What's the disease process?
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How early are we catching it?
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How is this going to change the trajectory for that particular person, their prognosis?
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So I think to myself, if someone doesn't get the intervention let's just say someone and I have had this happen where patients don't want to get their breast lump removed or they don't want to have a surgery and they want to do something totally naturally, what they're not privy to is the trajectory of that if you don't get the intervention Right.
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So so it's kind of like a fire you have to go through like like to get to the other side of it, to be on the other side of it, to be on the other side of treatment and hopefully without any cancer left in your body.
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In this earlier stages of cancer, certainly the decision to do the treatment is because you're trying to eradicate the disease.
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I think it's similar to getting through the fire because you do have to get through a tougher time.
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You might be perfectly healthy and have cancer sitting in front of me.
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Perfectly healthy, you exercise, you eat.
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Well, it happens, right, cancer just happens sometimes.
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And then you go through treatment and you feel like crap.
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Through treatment.
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The idea, hopefully, is to get you back to that first day we were sitting together and now you're cancer free and you feel great.
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So yeah, but that's the privilege of people who are caught early.
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Their disease process is caught early.
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People with metastatic cancer, people with tumors that are so extensive in their body that the treatment may or may not extend their life, have a different decision to make, right?
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So sometimes you know there are actually studies, and this was before the immune agents, but I will share with you.
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There were studies before the immune agents for lung cancer.
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There was a classic study that showed people with lung cancer who just went into basically supportive care and no active conventional care lived longer than those who took the chemo.
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Now we have immune therapies, thankfully, and that's a totally different decision to make, but at the time that was really profound, that just supportive care.
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Those people lived longer and of course they had a better quality of life because they weren't going through chemo.
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So back to the myth cancer treatment is usually worse than the disease.
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There's some truism to that for the case of early cancers, but it's worth it at the same time because then you're hopefully without it in the end.
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Yeah, and I mean we've had our patients who had advanced cancers that when they received their treatment it may have been hard as they were going through it, and then they feel this relief, or even as they're going through it, they're like I can breathe.
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Yeah, I have this radiation burn, but I can breathe now.
00:18:01.086 --> 00:18:05.636
Quality of life counts as part of this decision, especially for later stages.
00:18:05.984 --> 00:18:08.489
Yeah, so this is the plug for what we do.
00:18:08.489 --> 00:18:20.045
This is why you see someone who is well-versed in managing the side effects of cancer treatment and is up to date as to what cancer treatments are.
00:18:21.146 --> 00:18:26.798
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot to know about being an integrative oncology requires any practitioner.
00:18:26.798 --> 00:18:29.583
I don't care what letters are after their name, what their degrees are.
00:18:29.583 --> 00:18:40.941
You have to be steeped in both conventional and the alternative world and know when, regardless of philosophy or paradigm that you ascribe to, what is best for the patient at any given time.
00:18:40.941 --> 00:18:43.069
Sometimes conventional medicine is the best thing to do.
00:18:43.069 --> 00:18:51.628
Sometimes you go out and you take a break from conventional for three months or six months and you get yourself all healthy again so that you can extend your life and improve your quality.
00:18:51.628 --> 00:18:58.200
So this is why, yeah, working with someone who knows the landscape is so essential, because most people are going through it for the first time.
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:02.792
They don't know the cancer landscape, so how would you possibly navigate it if you haven't been there?
00:19:02.792 --> 00:19:03.513
So that's what.
00:19:03.513 --> 00:19:04.675
And we don't even practice.
00:19:04.675 --> 00:19:07.079
We're not even pushing our own practices just for the listener out there.
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:08.992
It's not like we're taking new patients, either one of us.
00:19:09.365 --> 00:19:12.846
Oh yeah, that's right, because I'm back in retirement, yeah.
00:19:14.769 --> 00:19:15.912
So I just want to make that clear.
00:19:15.912 --> 00:19:17.576
This is not a commercial for ourselves.
00:19:17.576 --> 00:19:19.179
We're not pushing you to our clinic.
00:19:19.325 --> 00:19:21.613
Call 1-800-TINA-IN-LEIA.
00:19:24.048 --> 00:19:27.535
So there's the Oncology Association of Naturopathic Physicians.
00:19:27.535 --> 00:19:28.958
There is.
